Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

I am beginning to agree with DfT in that the Beeb have been reduced to being pedlars of 'fake news'...

Think you're both right. Another piece, shortly after, had food prices of imported goods rising dramatically. Why? Where is the evidence? Who's given the instruction to the Beeb to start reporting these things at this level? Where are the official notifications that the UK is going to raise tariffs on food?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Think you're both right. Another piece, shortly after, had food prices of imported goods rising dramatically. Why? Where is the evidence? Who's given the instruction to the Beeb to start reporting these things at this level? Where are the official notifications that the UK is going to raise tariffs on food?

Update on the publicly owned BBC shutting down [censoring] two Scottish Pro Independence journalists U Tube sites for using BBC news clips.

Pro Independence Journalist interviewed on BBC Scotland and the interviewer embarrassingly said that they had tried to get a BBC spokesperson on to explain their actions but non were available.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Prepare yourself for another vote, once all the Project Fear has been drip fed(avalanched) to the public.

I am beginning to agree with DfT in that the Beeb have been reduced to being pedlars of 'fake news'...

Think you're both right. Another piece, shortly after, had food prices of imported goods rising dramatically. Why? Where is the evidence? Who's given the instruction to the Beeb to start reporting these things at this level? Where are the official notifications that the UK is going to raise tariffs on food?

Finally others are seeing what I've been saying for months and months - the BBC have reverted to their war time-esque propaganda machine mode driven by the government, largely who wanted to remain. The idea being that if they keep hammering on the door with scaremongering tactics they will eventually force another vote at which time they'll have scared/brain washed people into doing their bidding.

Honestly, with the main stream media you MUST question everything and what their agenda is behind it, especially with something so important.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Maybe I'm missing something, or just plain thick - answers on a postcard.

There's just been a piece on the BBC Breakfast news in which a guy has said that Brexit will cause problems with the importation of animal foodstuffs from the EU, leading to food shortages in the supermarkets.

I find it hard to believe that barriers will be put in the way of imports that will lead to shortages. Yes, there may well be issues exporting into the EU. But issues importing? Really?

The UK may well resort to tariffs on imports of non-essential items from the EU, e.g. cars, but I just can't believe the level of rubbish being put out on a daily basis that is purely Project Fear. "Oh, lets stop feedstuffs coming into the UK and cause problems for our own people!" Unbelievable!

Prepare yourself for another vote, once all the Project Fear has been drip fed(avalanched) to the public.

Apologies if I’m confused, but there was a mention about the severe shortage of vets in the UK and currently we accept certain animal foodstuffs and products if they’ve got the EU Vet Stamp on, if we then have no deal we would then not recognise the EU Vet Stamp (Don’t know why) and all these products would have to be checked by our vets (which we don’t have) prior to acceptance into the UK.

Edit: Not saying this is correct or part of project fear.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Honestly, with the main stream media you MUST question everything and what their agenda is behind it, especially with something so important.

For the last four years the fall back scenario with the MSM Scottish unionist press is 'The headline is generally a lie'.
On many occasions if you read down to the last couple of paras you can get to their version of the truth.


I find it amusing that certain posters on here and the rUK finally woken up to the ways of the BBC.
Total U turn from 2014.

 

[Hobbit]

Apologies if I’m confused, but there was a mention about the severe shortage of vets in the UK and currently we accept certain animal foodstuffs and products if they’ve got the EU Vet Stamp on, if we then have no deal we would then not recognise the EU Vet Stamp (Don’t know why) and all these products would have to be checked by our vets (which we don’t have) prior to acceptance into the UK.

Edit: Not saying this is correct or part of project fear.

But we accept stuff from all around the world with the stamp of the exporting country. Accepting stuff with an EU CE mark is a box ticking exercise being made to look like its something insurmountable. Unless I'm missing something this is just propaganda.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

All the relevant information re. importing and exporting foodstuffs is on the Food Standards Agency/Gov.UK websites.

Basically all food imported into the UK/EU must have the relevant certification - this won't change after EU Exit. If it doesn't have the certification then it's either returned to the exporting country or destroyed.

And the UK is in the process of looking at creating new - and enhancing current - Border Inspection Posts to improve and increase capacity for dealing with imports and exports of goods from EU and non-EU countries.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If that actually comes to pass I suspect there are planned resolutions in place...

Apparently there was a plan in place for Brexit when May triggered Article 50...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am beginning to agree with DfT in that the Beeb have been reduced to being pedlars of 'fake news'...

If an official trade body holds an opinion that it then expresses - then that is not Fake News. That is their understanding of a future Reality. Now you might not agree with it but it is not 'fake'.

Stating as true something that is demonstrably and factually not true, and presenting that to the public as news - then that is 'fake news'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Finally others are seeing what I've been saying for months and months - the BBC have reverted to their war time-esque propaganda machine mode driven by the government, largely who wanted to remain. The idea being that if they keep hammering on the door with scaremongering tactics they will eventually force another vote at which time they'll have scared/brain washed people into doing their bidding.

Honestly, with the main stream media you MUST question everything and what their agenda is behind it, especially with something so important.

Was Emily Maitlis demonstrating BBC bias in her hammering of Marcus Fysh a couple of nights back on Newsnight - or was she just exposing the guy for what he is - a Brexit-Whatever purveyor of empty platitudes with no answers to the concerns being raised by the representative of a trade body...other than what he believes will be the case once we leave. He offered nothing other than blind faith and the 'we must deliver what the people voted for' mantra/schtick.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

All the relevant information re. importing and exporting foodstuffs is on the Food Standards Agency/Gov.UK websites.

Basically all food imported into the UK/EU must have the relevant certification - this won't change after EU Exit. If it doesn't have the certification then it's either returned to the exporting country or destroyed.

And the UK is in the process of looking at creating new - and enhancing current - Border Inspection Posts to improve and increase capacity for dealing with imports and exports of goods from EU and non-EU countries.

But we accept stuff from all around the world with the stamp of the exporting country. Accepting stuff with an EU CE mark is a box ticking exercise being made to look like its something insurmountable. Unless I'm missing something this is just propaganda.

As you both say it shouldn’t be an issue and no more than a box ticking exercise, but, what if the UK doesn’t accept the EU Stamp and it’s not marked with a particular Country stamp and we don’t have the new procedures or improved facilities in place.
I’ve no experience of the above, but it seems the fear is coming from changes happening overnight, if it’s a long drawn out process then you’d hope all procedures would and should be there.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

As you both say it shouldn’t be an issue and no more than a box ticking exercise, but, what if the UK doesn’t accept the EU Stamp and it’s not marked with a particular Country stamp and we don’t have the new procedures or improved facilities in place.
I’ve no experience of the above, but it seems the fear is coming from changes happening overnight, if it’s a long drawn out process then you’d hope all procedures would and should be there.

The UK is in the main rolling-over all current EU regulations and requirements so in effect not an issue. As I said, under current requirements, all consignments of food has to have the correct documentation attached to it. If it doesn't it's rejected and not allowed into the country. The issue will not be with the UK authorities - it will be with the EU not recognising UK certificates.

 

[Hobbit]

If an official trade body holds an opinion that it then expresses - then that is not Fake News. That is their understanding of a future Reality. Now you might not agree with it but it is not 'fake'.

Stating as true something that is demonstrably and factually not true, and presenting that to the public as news - then that is 'fake news'.

It is, as you say, an "opinion." Nothing has been confirmed yet, yet there are so many people jumping up and down and shouting hysterically that the sky is falling down. Just because they believe it will be the future reality still doesn't make it anything more than an opinion until someone signs a bit of paper/agreement that that is now the new process.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It is, as you say, an "opinion." Nothing has been confirmed yet, yet there are so many people jumping up and down and shouting hysterically that the sky is falling down. Just because they believe it will be the future reality still doesn't make it anything more than an opinion until someone signs a bit of paper/agreement that that is now the new process.

Exactly. Many businessmen and trade bodies are looking at how their businesses operate - and the lack of clarity and planning for a No Deal especially fills them with dread as they have been doing business within the context of the EU for 40yrs - for many all of their business life. They have been sitting for two years with these concerns - waiting - now they are expressing these concerns as they still see a vacuum.

And all they get are Brexit-Whatever-Lovers like Marcus Fysh telling them that they are wrong and stupid - that they need to believe in Brexit as that is what the British public voted for. That does nothing to assuage their concerns. And so they, and more like them, will continue to voice their concerns. And that is not 'fake news' - that is their understanding of their future reality. They cannot simply wait until post Brexit reality takes hold - they must plan for their expected reality.

 

[Hobbit]

Exactly. Many businessmen and trade bodies are looking at how their businesses operate - and the lack of clarity and planning for a No Deal especially fills them with dread as they have been doing business within the context of the EU for 40yrs - for many all of their business life. They have been sitting for two years with these concerns - waiting - now they are expressing these concerns as they still see a vacuum.

And all they get are Brexit-Whatever-Lovers like Marcus Fysh telling them that they are wrong and stupid - that they need to believe in Brexit as that is what the British public voted for. That does nothing to assuage their concerns. And so they, and more like them, will continue to voice their concerns. And that is not 'fake news' - that is their understanding of their future reality. They cannot simply wait until post Brexit reality takes hold - they must plan for their expected reality.

Obviously no business wants to be caught out, and the lack of a plan a,b,c,d etc from the government is poor but it’s still only opinions. Yes the opinion of a hard Brexit isn’t good but how about someone posting up some positive opinions, and then maybe there’ll be a balanced argument.

For example, the (cheaper)imports from India are expected to rise from 8% to 26% in the first 2 years because of the lifting of the current tariffs that make their products too expensive. By the end of 5 years the projection is 32%, As manufacturing takes advantage of the upturn.

That’s only a projection, just like the scaremongering that’s flowing in full force at present. Neither are fake news, and neither of them will become facts until a particular scenario becomes reality. And neither are reality yet.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Obviously no business wants to be caught out, and the lack of a plan a,b,c,d etc from the government is poor but it’s still only opinions. Yes the opinion of a hard Brexit isn’t good but how about someone posting up some positive opinions, and then maybe there’ll be a balanced argument.

For example, the (cheaper)imports from India are expected to rise from 8% to 26% in the first 2 years because of the lifting of the current tariffs that make their products too expensive. By the end of 5 years the projection is 32%, As manufacturing takes advantage of the upturn.

That’s only a projection, just like the scaremongering that’s flowing in full force at present. Neither are fake news, and neither of them will become facts until a particular scenario becomes reality. And neither are reality yet.

Fair enough. And if businesses recognised the future opportunities such as those from India that you suggest (with associated additional immigration let's not forget) then they might not be expressing their concerns - but they are expressing them.

What is not 'fake news' is the worry and concern that some businesses are actually feeling and expressing - these are not projections - these are real and now.

And witness Marcus Fysh - what an empty vessel of an MP - telling a trade body representative that actually no matter what his concerns might be - these concerns are wrong and stupid - and in fact the ONLY thing that matters is delivering the will of the people. It takes a blinkered fool to think like that.

 

[MegaSteve]

If an official trade body holds an opinion that it then expresses - then that is not Fake News. That is their understanding of a future Reality. Now you might not agree with it but it is not 'fake'.

Stating as true something that is demonstrably and factually not true, and presenting that to the public as news - then that is 'fake news'.

So, as a re-cap anything negative about indyref1 is fake and lies and anything negative about B****t is honest and true...


To be fair to the Beeb, on Countryfile, they had a bit about the Strawberry Sikh who was positive about the future...
Love conquers all etc... Top top bloke...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So, as a re-cap anything negative about indyref1 is fake and lies and anything negative about B****t is honest and true...


To be fair to the Beeb, on Countryfile, they had a bit about the Strawberry Sikh who was positive about the future...
Love conquers all etc... Top top bloke...

Don;t know about indyref1...

Didn't get a vote - and if I lived in Scotland and did then I don't know how I'd have voted - as I'd have seen things from a living-in-Scotland perspective rather than a living-in-England one

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Anyone who still thinks the BBC is an 'honest enquirer' should watch London Calling.

It is a one hour documentary so be prepared to have your core beliefs challenged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXQYuLUAbyw

Better be quick before the BBC takes it down.

 

[Hobbit]

Fair enough. And if businesses recognised the future opportunities such as those from India that you suggest (with associated additional immigration let's not forget) then they might not be expressing their concerns - but they are expressing them.

What is not 'fake news' is the worry and concern that some businesses are actually feeling and expressing - these are not projections - these are real and now.

And witness Marcus Fysh - what an empty vessel of an MP - telling a trade body representative that actually no matter what his concerns might be - these concerns are wrong and stupid - and in fact the ONLY thing that matters is delivering the will of the people. It takes a blinkered fool to think like that.

"Worry and concerns" are not facts, they are opinion based. Valid opinions IF a hard Brexit comes to pass, and valid opinions in terms of making sure plans are in place for it. But any business will look at costs, and changes to business practices will incur costs. They are wanting no extra costs, obviously, and will say pretty much anything, understandably, to avoid extra costs.

That still doesn't take away the fact that reduced or no tariffs, post-Brexit, is an upside for every buyer, that's members of the public and businesses that are buying from Non-EU countries or will switch to Non-EU countries.

To a large extent, I disagree with businesses highlighting their concerns in public and, in effect, trying to influence the public. The truth should come from the politicians(hahahahaha) when they are at the stump. Business shouldn't influence a public vote as they are only concerned about themselves.