Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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drdel said:
Not sure how genuine about decision or being usurped E.g Bercow, Corbyn ( wanted to leave but now being PM is more attractive)
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I can understand Corbyn feigning outrage - as you described - but Bercow's twitter(?) comment was pretty appropriate imo. Still legit, so.....
 
Foxholer said:
While not 'an illegal constitutional outrage', I have sympathy for those describing it as 'a constitutional outrage'. Still, this action was foreseen and nothing was (able to be?) done to prevent it, so....

However, it will likely unify anti No-Deal MPs who could well invoke a motion of No Confidence. given the government's miniscule majority, it's quite possib;e that that motion could succeed! Ken Clarke & Harriet Harman might well become joint PMs!

Big gamble on BoJo's part, but I suspect there's been plenty of 'analysis' done about possible moves and this was deemed his best path.
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#11,438 gives the Government's reply to that.
 
Upside is that leaving with No Deal should knacker Farage and his revolting mob. And I console myself with that thought. Still think it's a disgrace this circumventing of parliament just because the government doesn't fancy having to justify No Deal in any detail. And how does this proroguing fit with Johnson returning to the EU with a new idea to replace the Backstop - then taking it back to parliament if it is backed by the EU.
 
@realDonaldTrump
· 9m
Would be very hard for Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of Britain’s Labour Party, to seek a no-confidence vote against New Prime Minister Boris Johnson, especially in light of the fact that Boris is exactly what the U.K. has been looking for, & will prove to be “a great one!” Love U.K.
 
Blue in Munich said:
He voted twice against what anyone with an IQ in double figures realised was the worst deal we could have possibly got.

You possibly bring less to this debate than SILH and that takes some doing.
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It wasn't a deal. It was the withdrawal agreement to give us the time to actually discuss a deal and it was pretty much the best we could hope for based on the Government red lines.
 
Pathetic Shark said:
Just loving how Corbyn is describing the move to suspend Parliament as "an affront to democracy". So ignoring a democratic vote by the people of this country is OK then?
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I think Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson is the worst culprit. She's suggested this move is "undemocratic". This being the woman that has openly campaigned for a 2nd referendum but has said she won't accept the result if Leave wins again.

I think many of those howling their outrage need to start being more honest about their intentions. They don't want to stop a no deal Brexit, they simply want to stop Brexit. The EU have said the WA can't be changed. Our MPs have voted against that agreement 3 times. That either leaves no deal or no Brexit and it's the latter that many of these people want. They've had 3 years to try to sort it out. How is losing 4 days going to make a difference?

Claims that this is "unprecedented" are also untrue. The shutdown happens before every new session of parliament so it is very much following precedent.
 
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Pathetic Shark said:
Just loving how Corbyn is describing the move to suspend Parliament as "an affront to democracy". So ignoring a democratic vote by the people of this country is OK then?
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Leave voters voted leave with an understanding (minimal or deep - it does not much matter which) of the manifesto set out by the Leave campaign in the lead up to the vote. The leave campaign stated that a great deal would be easily forthcoming. There was nothing at the front of the leave campaign that set out the No Deal option. Every lead proponent of Leave told us the sort of great deal we would be able to strike.

When we vote in a GE all that is on the voting slip are the names of the candidates and their party. When the government elected by that GE is in place where do we find it's mandate? How do we measure how the government is doing? The mandate that that voting paper gives is the mandate to govern and no more. We then measure the government we vote in against it's manifesto - against what it said in the lead up to the election. It's manifesto defines it's mandate fro the electorate.

The government mandate on leaving the EU does not extend to leaving with No Deal as that was not what the Leave campaign said it would deliver - it was not on the leave manifesto nor did they promote it. The government has no mandate from the referendum for the UK leaving without a deal.
 
Personally I think this is all strategy by Boris to get a general election called. He wants the Queen's speech to be used as a proxy for a vote of no confidence. because in his Queen's speech he will be promising money for the police, NHS, infrastructure and science (he's helpfully put that in his letter). He then wants the opposition and Tory rebels to vote against those things, bringing down his Government and going to the polls, he then has not just Brexit to go against Parliament but also can beat down the opposition for not supporting the NHS, police etc.

No Deal will be stopped, BJ has been bluffing all the way through and he's still bluffing (he has to, to get the BxP votes back). He still also pretends there will be an EU cave in and a deal to keep the deal Leavers onside. He wants/needs a majority and he needs enemies to campaign against. Give him a majority and he'll dump the DUP quicker than his ex-wife just diagnosed with cancer, then they'll be a border in the Irish sea and he gets Brexit without the backstop, job done! He'll also get a small economic boost because it's not No Deal.
 
Jo Swinson, an MP, has said she has written to the Queen to educate her on what “Parliament wants”. The Queen was on the throne 28 years before Swinson was born. Also, Corbyn has threatened to see the Queen. Has the man no mercy?

Jo Swinton really is taking herself and her rag bag party of dissembling misfits far too seriously. Now she feels up to giving the Queen constitutional advice. This from a woman who stated that she will ignore any votes by the electorate to leave the E.U. Priceless!
 
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