Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Fade and Die]

What's the third referendum?

We're only in this situation due to how badly it has been handled. When the actual alternative vs. remain is defined is when we should have had the vote. No wonder when people see what the alternative is, there may no longer be a majority to leave.

An interesting watch --

https://twitter.com/x/status/1114954083511808006

I posted before that one of the mysteries of our times is the number of people who claim to be left-wing while supporting the neoliberal policies of the European Union. People openly say they support membership of the EU because it maintains the supply of low-wage workers to the UK. In other words, to make their own lives easier, they want to exploit the less wealthy countries of Eastern Europe. In any other context this would be denounced as a racist but because the neoliberals also control the media it can be passed off as ‘progressive.’

 

[User62651]

I posted before that one of the mysteries of our times is the number of people who claim to be left-wing while supporting the neoliberal policies of the European Union. People openly say they support membership of the EU because it maintains the supply of low-wage workers to the UK. In other words, to make their own lives easier, they want to exploit the less wealthy countries of Eastern Europe. In any other context this would be denounced as a racist but because the neoliberals also control the media it can be passed off as ‘progressive.’

Not other words, your sick words.

 

[patricks148]

Sorry to go off topic from cars and wine, but really enjoyed Laura Kuenssbergs Brexit programme the other night. Found it fascinating from her effectively coaching Bojo to seeing Steve Baker in tears when he said he'd vote against Mays deal.

Whilst I think parliament have not covered themselves in glory, after listening to Brexitcast and watching this I do have a better understanding into just how hard this whole process has been for them, especially those MPs whose personal beliefs on Brexit contradict what their constituents voted for. I imagine there will be a lot of MPs who come out of this very mentally scarred.

Well worth a watch https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003wxb/the-brexit-storm-laura-kuenssbergs-inside-story

i only saw i bit of it and it turned my stomach the way she flirted with the blonde buffoon. what little respect i had for her.... gone

 

[Hobbit]

Apologies I misread your other post, saying that though even another referendum is insane imo, imagine the split and damage it would cause to this country. The thing I’m seeing is remainers are finding lots of “what if” and “should have” arguments to try and force another referendum, in reality what’s done is done and the victors shouldn’t have to become the losers because the (anti brexit) Uk parliament are a bunch of self obsessed idiots.
Like I said pages and pages ago, it’s completely irrelevant how I voted and what my feelings are on brexit, if parliament do not carry through with this and cop out, it would be an absolute disgrace of the highest order.

It could be argued that if another referendum is called it will be the 3rd public vote with an emphasis on Brexit. May called her ill-fated GE with a manifesto pledge for Brexit. Labour likewise had it as a manifesto pledge. The LibDems had a pledge to reverse Brexit and tanked at the GE, although probably more to do with them choosing a coalition with the Tories rather than Labour.

It might even be argued that it would be the 4th vote, as there was also the vote to trigger Article 50.

You couldn't script a better farce.

 

[Beezerk]

It could be argued that if another referendum is called it will be the 3rd public vote with an emphasis on Brexit. May called her ill-fated GE with a manifesto pledge for Brexit. Labour likewise had it as a manifesto pledge. The LibDems had a pledge to reverse Brexit and tanked at the GE, although probably more to do with them choosing a coalition with the Tories rather than Labour.

It might even be argued that it would be the 4th vote, as there was also the vote to trigger Article 50.

You couldn't script a better farce.

Will you stop frying my brain please 😆

 

[Fade and Die]

Not other words, your sick words.

Strong stuff. Want to elaborate why its sick? After all if its not exploitation of cheap labour to improve profit what is it? (I'm guessing you have a few Romanian tree fellers on your books)

 

[Foxholer]

Strong stuff. Want to elaborate why its sick? After all if its not exploitation of cheap labour to improve profit what is it? (I'm guessing you have a few Romanian tree fellers on your books)

It's not 'exploitation' imo unless you define it as 'mutual exploitation'! UK provides opportunities for foreign Labour at every level of work - for temporary or permanent workers - within certain criteria. To select a single group as being 'exploited' simply because it is 'low-paid', by UK standards, is plain wrong imo!

 

[Fade and Die]

It's not 'exploitation' imo unless you define it as 'mutual exploitation'! UK provides opportunities for foreign Labour at every level of work - for temporary or permanent workers - within certain criteria. To select a single group as being 'exploited' simply because it is 'low-paid', by UK standards, is plain wrong imo!

Don't want to pull a "Foxy" on you but the word Exploitation can mean..... "The action of making use of and benefiting from resources"

 

[Foxholer]

Don't want to pull a "Foxy" on you but the word Exploitation can mean..... "The action of making use of and benefiting from resources"

Indeed! That's pretty much 'in line with' the 'mutual exploitation' I mentioned. 'Used' or 'Making Use of' would be appropriate synonyms - withoiut the negative 'bias'.

It was the negative oriented other meaning I was assuming (because of the reference to 'cheap labour' - and subsequent text - but no reference to 'better pay than is available at home') was being used. You could have simply stated 'Use', but chose 'Exploited'. Here's that definition ... 'the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.'

Perhaps you should explain which use you really meant!

 

[User62651]

Strong stuff. Want to elaborate why its sick? After all if its not exploitation of cheap labour to improve profit what is it? (I'm guessing you have a few Romanian tree fellers on your books)

You've just called all remainers racists by association with wishing to stay in EU, in a pretty warped/offensive post. The people you're referring to are the same race as 90%+ of Britsh people so it wouldn't even be racism for a start. If they were from Africa you'd maybe have a point.

Freedom of movement allows EU people to travel as they wish, nearly all from EU working here (except any trafficked) have chosen that route of their own free will. My company is about 99% British employees, few Finns, 1 Spaniard maybe. Some of the tree planting gangs have Eastern European workers who travel all over Europe to work, their choice. They make pretty good money at it, certainly not exploited. Generally good workers too or they wouldn't last. Not enough local British people willing or able to do that work. Wrt tree fellers things have moved on, harvesting operations are 99% mechanised and not many immigrants can afford £300k+ harvesters.

 

[IanM]

Freedom of movement is great for making working, studying and travel easier...but don't let the Federalists tell you it is impossible without it!!

Additionally, if the wage was £7-50 here and £15 somewhere else, most of us would be on our bikes!! Of course we would. In amongst the pros, there are issues of pressure on public services and it's freedom of movement for criminals too.

May is off asking for an extension to Art 50. She'll get it. All part of the plan.

 

[Fade and Die]

Indeed! That's pretty much 'in line with' the 'mutual exploitation' I mentioned. 'Used' or 'Making Use of' would be appropriate synonyms - withoiut the negative 'bias'.

It was the negative oriented other meaning I was assuming (because of the reference to 'cheap labour' - and subsequent text - but no reference to 'better pay than is available at home') was being used. You could have simply stated 'Use', but chose 'Exploited'. Here's that definition ... 'the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.'

Perhaps you should explain which use you really meant!

To be honest it's your definition i really meant. The 2nd definition was really just sugar coating it.... But the facts remain the same, Capitalism LOVES cheap labour. Why? bigger profit. So we are exploiting the hard working men and woman from Eastern Europe. We are employing them at a cheaper rate than the local population are willing to do the same job for. Yes its mutually beneficial as in there own countries they cannot even earn the pittance the fruit farmer (for eg) will pay them. But please do not kid yourself that we are doing it for some kind of philanthropic reasons. We are doing it to increase profit.

 

[Foxholer]

To be honest it's your definition i really meant. The 2nd definition was really just sugar coating it.... But the facts remain the same, Capitalism LOVES cheap labour. Why? bigger profit. So we are exploiting the hard working men and woman from Eastern Europe. We are employing them at a cheaper rate than the local population are willing to do the same job for. Yes its mutually beneficial as in there own countries they cannot even earn the pittance the fruit farmer (for eg) will pay them. But please do not kid yourself that we are doing it for some kind of philanthropic reasons. We are doing it to increase profit.

Much, probably most, of the above is simply dogmatic twaddle!

 

[Fade and Die]

Much, probably most, of the above is simply dogmatic twaddle!

So naive.😞

 

[Foxholer]

So naive.😞

That too!

 

[Fade and Die]

That too!

Keep digging. 👍

 

[Fade and Die]

You've just called all remainers racists by association with wishing to stay in EU, in a pretty warped/offensive post. The people you're referring to are the same race as 90%+ of Britsh people so it wouldn't even be racism for a start. If they were from Africa you'd maybe have a point.

Freedom of movement allows EU people to travel as they wish, nearly all from EU working here (except any trafficked) have chosen that route of their own free will. My company is about 99% British employees, few Finns, 1 Spaniard maybe. Some of the tree planting gangs have Eastern European workers who travel all over Europe to work, their choice. They make pretty good money at it, certainly not exploited. Generally good workers too or they wouldn't last. Not enough local British people willing or able to do that work. Wrt tree fellers things have moved on, harvesting operations are 99% mechanised and not many immigrants can afford £300k+ harvesters.

😂 You think you have seen and heard it all from snowflakes, but this takes the absolute biscuit.

(Of course the biscuit will be a custard cream and not a bourbon, in case anyone is offended)

 

[Hacker Khan]

He's the gift that keeps on giving....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115259420374708225

 

[Doon frae Troon]

What's the third referendum?

We're only in this situation due to how badly it has been handled. When the actual alternative vs. remain is defined is when we should have had the vote. No wonder when people see what the alternative is, there may no longer be a majority to leave.

An interesting watch --

https://twitter.com/x/status/1114954083511808006

We have name for folk like that fruit farmer in Scotland.
It starts with F and ends in Y and used to be a popular Victorian girls name.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

We have name for folk like that fruit farmer in Scotland.
It starts with F and ends in Y and used to be a popular Victorian girls name.

Felicity?