Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!
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chrisd
Major Champion
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Old Skier
Tour Winner
Thought I'd get in before SILH, but I see it reported that there is a worry that our driving licences will not be accepted in the EU and that travel on a passport that runs out within 6 months will be stopped.
1. How do none EU drivers cope, before 74 it was acceptable to drive on a UK driving license. love to know from a remainer what has changed.
2. Have you tried getting on a AC with a passport that expires within 6 months. Normally TC's will not even accept a booking.
So is the media reporting fact or fiction, do they never travel abroad and were they all born after 74.
1. How do none EU drivers cope, before 74 it was acceptable to drive on a UK driving license. love to know from a remainer what has changed.
2. Have you tried getting on a AC with a passport that expires within 6 months. Normally TC's will not even accept a booking.
So is the media reporting fact or fiction, do they never travel abroad and were they all born after 74.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Regarding the driving license, it has just been suggested that British motorist could face additional barriers when driving in the EU as the UK license won't be automatically recognised unless plans are put in place. Most likely we will have to purchase an international driving permit much like we do when going to somewhere like the states, or the UK government will instead fall back on the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic – a treaty introduced to facilitate international road traffic that Britain has agreed to but has yet to ratify. Hardly the end of the world, but just another little cost for "freedom"
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Can someone who voted Leave please tell me what they believe the benefits will be? I genuinely interested to hear some of the good that they feel will come out of this as I'm still struggling to see it despite looking into it in some detail.
I want to hear about it from other sources as I am concerned confirmation bias maybe affecting the articles I am reading/seeing
I want to hear about it from other sources as I am concerned confirmation bias maybe affecting the articles I am reading/seeing
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I'm loving how it is that Lead Leavers are - as we approach B-day - exaggerating - to absurd levels - the warnings that Remain and most business/industry/commerce leaders and economic commentators have been saying for more than two years - and that the Government is now putting out in the context of No Deal. How warnings of significant delays at ports is now 'blockades'. That stockpiling of food and drugs is now 'food and drugs running out' etc.
And by misrepresenting to such an exaggerated extent what these Remain /No Deal is a Terrible Deal voices are saying - they simply aim to shore up the Leave support that only listen to them and no other - because they have been told, and now seem to believe, that all else (except that from Patrick Minford) is Fake News.
And then we have Moggie yesterday evening commenting on the boss of Jaguar/LandrRover's warning that a No Deal could well cost them £1.2bn a year and that would wipe out profits and so puts 10,000's of thousands of jobs at risk. So what does Moggie say on this. Absurd - nonsense - there just wouldn't be the tariffs that would result in such a loss. Completely and deliberately ignoring that the boss of JLR had clearly stated that the loss would come about through the impact of delivery delays impacting their JiT manufacturing.
And of course when questioned on impact on JiT manufacturing Moggie simply dismisses it as misplaced concerns and fear-mongering - that there won't be any such problems - that there just won't be such delays - and implies quite clearly that he boss of JLR is wrong.
Oh dear - the this Moggie-man is a very duplicitous and deceitful snake-oil salesman.
Are Leavers actually listening to this rubbish and believing it? Good leader article in the Times yesterday basically saying that hard-line Leave MPs (ERG et al) need to get real about the future - that they need to admit that No Deal is Not Good and they should get behind the PM.
But hey - that's The Times - to be dismissed as a Remain newspaper?
And by misrepresenting to such an exaggerated extent what these Remain /No Deal is a Terrible Deal voices are saying - they simply aim to shore up the Leave support that only listen to them and no other - because they have been told, and now seem to believe, that all else (except that from Patrick Minford) is Fake News.
And then we have Moggie yesterday evening commenting on the boss of Jaguar/LandrRover's warning that a No Deal could well cost them £1.2bn a year and that would wipe out profits and so puts 10,000's of thousands of jobs at risk. So what does Moggie say on this. Absurd - nonsense - there just wouldn't be the tariffs that would result in such a loss. Completely and deliberately ignoring that the boss of JLR had clearly stated that the loss would come about through the impact of delivery delays impacting their JiT manufacturing.
And of course when questioned on impact on JiT manufacturing Moggie simply dismisses it as misplaced concerns and fear-mongering - that there won't be any such problems - that there just won't be such delays - and implies quite clearly that he boss of JLR is wrong.
Oh dear - the this Moggie-man is a very duplicitous and deceitful snake-oil salesman.
Are Leavers actually listening to this rubbish and believing it? Good leader article in the Times yesterday basically saying that hard-line Leave MPs (ERG et al) need to get real about the future - that they need to admit that No Deal is Not Good and they should get behind the PM.
But hey - that's The Times - to be dismissed as a Remain newspaper?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
But Bri - what actual FACTS do Leave tell us about a future outside of the EU, the ERG have even withdrawn their plan from release as they can't agree on the future they want. And if they can't agree on the future shape of things what FACTS can they then tell us about it.
I said way back then that I'd like to see a Leave Plan. And I was dismissed as being so naive to ask for such a thing. Of course there is a plan - but to release it would undermine our negotiating position - said all the top negotiators on here. And I and the rest of the electorate have been told this endlessly. And it was all a big lie. Because there was no plan - and there still is no plan.
I believe barely a word of the ever-so-confident 'brave new world' assertions that come out of Lead Leavers mouths - barely a word. Especially when these mouths are connected to such as Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Fox, Leadsome (not heard much from her of late?), Bone, Cash, Budgen, Fysh and Dorries. And they have brought it upon themselves.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Sovereignty. Mind you I was listening to Mr Johnson opining about the Chequers Deal and telling us the it was worse than being in the EU (well blow me down gently) and we would lose sovereignty. But hold on a wee mo Mr Johnson - to lose sovereignty we first have to have some to lose. Of course this is just what the Brexit White Paper did state - that we never did lose our sovereignty even although it sometimes felt like like. Still - nice to hear a bit of - albeit unintentional - honesty from Mr Johnson.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Just another example of the exaggeration by Leave of concerns raised by those against leaving or against a No Deal. Restate in utterly absurd terms Remain concerns about leaving with No Deal , and Leave voters read that as what those expressing the concerns are actually saying - and of course they don't believe it - as well they might not.
IanM
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Barriers? I am not sure the tourist countries will want the EU to impose a ban on UK (which are mainly EU ones currently anyway) drving licenses.. would cost too much in lost revenue. (but I relaise that side the the equation doesnt count on this tread!
) And, phyiscal barriers driving between states, have gone! Maybe Spain and Portugal would ike to pay to reintroduce their border to check UK nationals nipping over to Isla Canelia for a game!
My UK licence was ok in the States ... I guess if Trump reads what SILH has been saying about him, he might ban the lot of us!
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Yes, barriers as in something extra stopping us from just getting in our car in Calais and driving off, i.e. the requirement to purchase an international driving permit (at the cost to the licence holder). I'm not talking about physical barriers.Barriers? I am not sure the tourist countries will want the EU to impose a ban on UK (which are mainly EU ones currently anyway) drving licenses.. would cost too much in lost revenue. (but I relaise that side the the equation doesnt count on this tread!
And, phyiscal barriers driving between states, have gone! Maybe Spain and Portugal would ike to pay to reintroduce their border to check UK nationals nipping over to Isla Canelia for a game!
My UK licence was ok in the States ... I guess if Trump reads what SILH has been saying about him, he might ban the lot of us!
And you can drive in the states because the UK has an arrangement with the US. The same would have to be arranged with the rest of the EU. Something like ratifying the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.
Like I said though, it isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Just another thing that we weren't made aware of prior to the vote
And just the one thing that might just be the straw the breaks the camel's back on the resistance of some Leavers to a referendum on the Leave deal.
Anyway - I'll see your driving licence and raise you mobile phone roaming charges...
drdel
Tour Rookie
You haven't bothered to thinks this stuff through...
Mobile roaming is not an issue. Some operators have already said they will not impose additional call charges. In any case you could always buy a 'local' SIM as many astute travellers already do for USA etc.
The JiT manufacturing issues that JLR mentioned are solved by numerous companies who work to & from the RoW - Japan, USA etc - another Red Herring. JLR are being economical with the truth: Indian owned and progressively moving assembly to China etc - they're playing the exchange rate/corporation tax game and the 'extra' costs are not real but accounting processes which can be adjusted depending where it decides 'profit'/added value is best located
International Driving permits have been around for decades and not been a problem for Brits driving in Africa, Australia, Middle East, NZ, Japan, USA etc etc...
woody69
Journeyman Pro
You mean using the trade agreements that are between the EU and the RoW, that the UK have to renegotiate?
Are Honda just making stuff up? https://www.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475
As has been posted, the boss of Jaguar has been quoted that the disruption to JIT will cost £1.2bn a year, and 10,000 jobs are at risk. He should know best, after all he is the boss. This is more of a rhetorical question, but just how will JIT be impacted beyond the first few weeks? And how will JIT be impacted at all if someone uses a modicum of intelligence?
For example, if Jaguar place an order today for delivery on the 30th Sept, but post-Brexit that delivery wouldn't arrive till 3rd Oct then the lead time has increased by 3 days. I wonder what the solution to that would be? Well, shock of shocks!! If you know your lead time has been increased by 3 days, you order 3 days earlier.
Maybe I'm just plain stupid but am I missing something from that solution = order 3 days earlier??
And its stupid statements made by people like the Jaguar boss that really get on my whatsits. I don't doubt for one minute there'll be tariff issues, certifications and MRA's to resolve on both sides BUT DON'T TREAT ME LIKE AN IDIOT!! You know that by ordering 'x' days earlier you will have resolved your JIT issue. Or maybe he's just exaggerating for effect?
For example, if Jaguar place an order today for delivery on the 30th Sept, but post-Brexit that delivery wouldn't arrive till 3rd Oct then the lead time has increased by 3 days. I wonder what the solution to that would be? Well, shock of shocks!! If you know your lead time has been increased by 3 days, you order 3 days earlier.
Maybe I'm just plain stupid but am I missing something from that solution = order 3 days earlier??
And its stupid statements made by people like the Jaguar boss that really get on my whatsits. I don't doubt for one minute there'll be tariff issues, certifications and MRA's to resolve on both sides BUT DON'T TREAT ME LIKE AN IDIOT!! You know that by ordering 'x' days earlier you will have resolved your JIT issue. Or maybe he's just exaggerating for effect?
drdel
Tour Rookie
Exactly - but I'm afraid you common sense will fall on deaf ears yet again.
Anyone whose seen JLR's plant will know that their version of JiT has so much slack in the quantity of inventory they hold 'near the line' that it should not make any difference if they actually employed the principles of agile SCM !
As most modern manufacturing plants run enterprise wide (ERP) software with integrated MRP and inventory coordination 'no-one' will need to get their underwear in a knot.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
There issue is they don't know their lead time will increase by 3 days. That's the problem. It might be 3 days, it might be 1 day it might be 30 days.
Yet another technical not issued that people are getting hysterical over. Driving licences might not be valid. Very true, they might not. Just as the 73 technical notices issued by the EU show worst case scenarios, so do those issued by the UK. Both sides won't want worst case scenario, although some may well being that.
Who in their right mind believes that every single technical notice/worst case scenario will come to pass? Some will happen for both sides but the vast majority won't.
We export more medicine to the EU than we import. Of course the EU will want deaths on their head due to lack of medicine. So there's one technical notice that, although very valid, will get resolved. Overflying UK airspace from Schipol to New York, and from London to Saudi. There's a technical notice out for flying. That will get resolved. And guess what? Most of the technical notices involve costs/incomes. I wonder what that will mean for financial passporting? I wonder how VW will get their millions per year without financial passporting? Well, there's another one that will be resolved.
Some people need to take a breath and then look rationally, not hysterically, at the vast majority of technical notices. The vast majority of the worst case scenarios will be resolved.
Who in their right mind believes that every single technical notice/worst case scenario will come to pass? Some will happen for both sides but the vast majority won't.
We export more medicine to the EU than we import. Of course the EU will want deaths on their head due to lack of medicine. So there's one technical notice that, although very valid, will get resolved. Overflying UK airspace from Schipol to New York, and from London to Saudi. There's a technical notice out for flying. That will get resolved. And guess what? Most of the technical notices involve costs/incomes. I wonder what that will mean for financial passporting? I wonder how VW will get their millions per year without financial passporting? Well, there's another one that will be resolved.
Some people need to take a breath and then look rationally, not hysterically, at the vast majority of technical notices. The vast majority of the worst case scenarios will be resolved.
And after the first delivery is late by 3 days...
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I am only raising what am hearing - by the responses I get you'd think I was making this stuff up...
And as usual - everything is a Red Herring according to the world trade and economics experts on the board. But why on earth should I believe a word of what I read from them - they are but experts and experts - especially economic and trade experts - get it wrong and don't know what they are talking about - unless that is his name is Patrick Minford or Rees-bloody-Mogg (who is an expert in everything)
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