Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Deleted member 18588]

But ... whats the harm in a second vote ? Only the people can change the outcome and surely the people have that right ? Yes / No ?

As I have already asked what happens if a second vote reverses the first result?

Why is that result any more likely to be accepted than the other?

What then? A penalty shootout?

All sounds a bit like the Treaty of Lisbon referendum in your homeland.

 

[MegaSteve]

But ... whats the harm in a second vote ? Only the people can change the outcome and surely the people have that right ? Yes / No ?

I suspect it won't happen as it opens the door for Ms Sturgeon to push for indyref 2...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I suspect it won't happen as it opens the door for Ms Sturgeon to push for indyref 2...

No she is probably hoping for as hard a Brexit as Johnson, Gove etc can deliver.
Either way the outcome it is an obvious win win for the only UK politician who is honestly representing their voters.

 

[MegaSteve]

No she is probably hoping for as hard a Brexit as Johnson, Gove etc can deliver.
Either way the outcome it is an obvious win win for the only UK politician who is honestly representing their voters.

She can hope for all she wants but it won't guarantee a second bite of the cherry... Whereas, if a second vote occurred, for brexit, it narrows the reasons for denying indyref2...

 

[drdel]

The first vote was a binary choice and as staticians know on such issues the result with such a large number participating the outcome will always be close (+-/- 5%).

If there are 3 questions the outcome will be normalised by the large number of respondents : so now you have more confusion.

So how can you have any new vote with just a binary choice that is not skewed one way or the other - impossible.

 

[Hobbit]

The first vote was a binary choice and as staticians know on such issues the result with such a large number participating the outcome will always be close (+-/- 5%).

If there are 3 questions the outcome will be normalised by the large number of respondents : so now you have more confusion.

So how can you have any new vote with just a binary choice that is not skewed one way or the other - impossible.

You're not wrong there. Imagine a result that said 35%, 33%, 32%, and the decision was 35% to stay in the EU.

 

[Pants]

I notice you have seen into Joe Bloggs future, care to show were you got your facts from.

I think that you are wasting your time OS. He, and the other winging remainers don't seem to want to deal in facts - only negative opinions on leaving formed by gazing into their crystal balls. Heck. They can't even come up with any facts (positive or negative) regarding would will happen in the short/mid/long term if we stayed.

Btw. Can anyone suggest a reason why several of the most fervent remainer posters on this thread appear to have a Scottish background?

 

[Leftie]

Btw. Can anyone suggest a reason why several of the most fervent remainer posters on this thread appear to have a Scottish background?

Well practiced trolls??

 

[Dando]

Yes as simple as my question was......it is pretty obvious to most enlightened people that all on your list are all to blame. [except the EU]
BTW you missed out UKIP.
It must also be one of the rare occasions when a Unionist is not putting some element of obscure blame on the SNP.

WHy aren’t the EU to blame?

 

[Hobbit]

Can anyone suggest a reason why several of the most fervent remainer posters on this thread appear to have a Scottish background?

Maybe its indicative that the majority of Scots voted Remain... simples really.

 

[bladeplayer]

But what would the question be?

No idea to be honest i suppose it would have to be after March 31
But when the government go to the people they are looking for a mandate on the promises / proposals they have put forward in the build up . These mandates or proposals most definitely have not been delivered
They , both sides need to underline what this bad deal / no deal brexit means short term and as best long term as they now know what is and is not on the table from Europe . Then let the people decide on what's on offer now


I'm Irish and our crowd are rubbish but I'd find it hard to accept a result when not only the goal posts have been moved but I think the stadium and opposition has been changed..

 

[Slime]

WHy aren’t the EU to blame?

Because it doesn't suit his agenda?

 

[Hobbit]

Spain considering dropping VAT for British tourists visiting the Canaries, post-Brexit.

"SPAIN TOURISM HOTSPOT COULD CANCEL TAX FOR BRITISH TOURISTS AMID BREXIT FEARS

BRITISH tourists could be exempt from paying ‘VAT’ in the Canary Islands in a bid to battle Brexit.
President of the Spanish islands Fernando Clavijo said the measure would make the Canaries more competitive and help them achieve ‘better results’."

 

[bladeplayer]

As I have already asked what happens if a second vote reverses the first result?

Why is that result any more likely to be accepted than the other?

What then? A penalty shootout?

All sounds a bit like the Treaty of Lisbon referendum in your homeland.

But as I said previous only the people can change the result , leave or remain people must accept what's on offer now is not what many people based their vote on

Re the Lisbon treaty we said no , our government went back to Europe got changes and went back to country again with the new terms we said yes .. This is why I think UK should do the same

Oh and we are too small to reject the EU for too long so we will bend over eventually..we are dependent on grants

 

[Hobbit]

But as I said previous only the people can change the result , leave or remain people must accept what's on offer now is not what many people based their vote on

Re the Lisbon treaty we said no , our government went back to Europe got changes and went back to country again with the new terms we said yes .. This is why I think UK should do the same

Oh and we are too small to reject the EU for too long so we will bend over eventually..we are dependent on grants

I'd check whether or not Ireland did get the Treaty amended. From what I remember the text of the Treaty wasn't amended but amendments were added recognising Ireland's constitutional rule that the Irish people would retain the right to vote on treaties.

That wasn't how it was sold to the Irish people at the time but it went through on the second vote. I could be wrongs it was so long ago but...

 

[drdel]

You're not wrong there. Imagine a result that said 35%, 33%, 32%, and the decision was 35% to stay in the EU.

I seriously fear and suspect everyone and his uncle (sorry not PC) would try and add any of the two percentages together and claim a majority - putting us in an even bigger mess than we already have !!! T'would make DfT and SILH very happy !

 

[bladeplayer]

I'd check whether or not Ireland did get the Treaty amended. From what I remember the text of the Treaty wasn't amended but amendments were added recognising Ireland's constitutional rule that the Irish people would retain the right to vote on treaties.

That wasn't how it was sold to the Irish people at the time but it went through on the second vote. I could be wrongs it was so long ago but...

Don't rightly remember myself Brian to be honest , my mrs who worked on all the open forums around the country is of the opinion irl voted no because we did not receive enough info on change so backlash was a no vote , even the politicians who said this is great vote for it admitted they hadn't read it , there was an amendment to the wording at least possibly to cover what u mentioned above , I have to be honest I don't remember much more about it

 

[SocketRocket]

We should wait and see if May can get any further concessions before the parliament vote, if the vote fails then the government should inform the EU we will now leave with either a trade agreement and payoff or just leave.

 

[shagster]

You're not wrong there. Imagine a result that said 35%, 33%, 32%, and the decision was 35% to stay in the EU.

that is an election result
winners 35
losers 33
don't care/didn't vote 32

that's why politics is not working
all this talk of a deal and delaying the vote is BS
we voted out, lets get out
not out with a deal, that was not on my ballot paper
its not the okey kokey

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think that you are wasting your time OS. He, and the other winging remainers don't seem to want to deal in facts - only negative opinions on leaving formed by gazing into their crystal balls. Heck. They can't even come up with any facts (positive or negative) regarding would will happen in the short/mid/long term if we stayed.

Btw. Can anyone suggest a reason why several of the most fervent remainer posters on this thread appear to have a Scottish background?

How about 62% of Scots voted to remain. Every single district of Scotland voted to remain.
The Scottish Parliament with the exception of a handful of far right Tory MSP's voted to oppose the UK Government from dragging the people of Scotland out of the EU.
The UK Government has flatly refused to work with the Scottish Government to find a workable solution for Scots with Brexit. despite doing so with NI and Gibraltar.
And now they insult us by saying we have to work together for the best solution for England and perhaps Wales.
Surprised you do not know these facts already [not]

BTW Re your first question, from this side of the fence exactly the same can be said about cliff face Leavers.