Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Doon frae Troon]

I'd like to remind all those who are moaning about the quality of our engineers that the home of Formula 1 is here in the UK

I wonder how many of those top engineers were trained in the UK.

 

[Fade and Die]

I wonder how many of those top engineers were trained in the UK.

Are your ears burning😁...... https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/trolling.99524/page-6

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I wonder how many of those top engineers were trained in the UK.

Plenty - play golf with a good number of people who work for Red Bull and a few others in Silverstone and a good deal amount of the design and engineering team are from the UK and educated in the UK

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The EU have this morning agreed the Brexit withdrawal agreement also known as the Theresa May capitulation document. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks and if it gets past the vote in the UK parliament. I don't know how it has any chance of being passed with it being so roundly criticised by both sides of the argument.

Which does also raise questions on how there could be a Peoples Vote. What would the question be? It would need to be a binary choice but couldn't be accept the agreement/remain and equally couldn't be accept the agreement/no deal so what would it be?

I think for Brexiteers the biggest indicator that the agreement is Brexit in name only is that SiLH isn't vehemently opposed to it and seems to have adopted a position of quiet acceptance. As one of the most vocal opponents of Brexit he's not been very critical of the negotiated deal which should be raising red flags for Leave voters.

Also saw an interesting point raised by a Leave supporting MP. Almost everything that the EU wanted is contained in the Brexit withdrawal agreement which is legally enforceable. Almost everything the UK wanted is in the future roadmap document which isn't legally enforceable. No idea how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

I think the deal is as good as it could be but still grim - pretty much what was predicted by the Remain camp at the very outset and indeed before the vote - and so I'd reject it. But of course any and all suggestion that we might well end up exactly where we are today with the Withdrawal Agreement that we have today were met by cries of Project Fear. And so it has come to pass.

Meanwhile the most vocal opponents of the deal on the Leave side of the argument have yet to put forward their alternative...an alternative that they couldn't agree on before the vote and so hardly surprising they don't ave one now - other than something they call Canada +++ whatever the heck that is - because just as Brexit means Brexit is meaningless - Canada +++ is meaningless until it is defined. We did not vote to Remain or for Canada +++. Yet still they call for a new PM to go back t the EU to renegotiate. Just meaningless pie-in-the-sky, never going to happen.

And as far as complaints over the 'Future Outline Deal' - the 26 pages of non-binding intention - well what did we expect at this point? After all from Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty...

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

I think that this is pretty much exactly where we have got to. We have a Withdrawal Agreement with a non-binding framework for a future relationship.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Totally agree!

An absolutely pigs ear of an agreement!

'No Deal' would be far more acceptable!

Depends what you want or what you might deem acceptable to inflict on the country

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The total arrogance of the political classes who believe this is a document worthy of the people who took the trouble to engage in the process and vote...

Well the Leave campaign should have set out out clearly before the vote exactly what they would have wanted to have at the conclusion of the negotiations. But they didn't because they had no consistent and coherent view that would stand up to any detailed scrutiny. So they avoided that risk by just ignoring it. And we are today will still no alternative withdrawal agreement. And No Deal is not a negotiated agreement.

 

[USER1999]

No deal gives options, this deal does not. This is an absolutely appalling deal, which ties the UK to the EU in perpetuity, a bit like a life time of slavery. No deal can lead to negotiations later, this does not. This is the rubbish you get leaving a remainer, May in charge of leaving. Awful. I would rather stay than have this rubbish deal.

May be that is the whole point of it.

Seriously, the 5th largest economy in the world needs to be a slave?

 

[Hobbit]

I think the deal is as good as it could be but still grim - pretty much what was predicted by the Remain camp at the very outset and indeed before the vote - and so I'd reject it. But of course any and all suggestion that we might well end up exactly where we are today with the Withdrawal Agreement that we have today were met by cries of Project Fear. And so it has come to pass.

Meanwhile the most vocal opponents of the deal on the Leave side of the argument have yet to put forward their alternative...an alternative that they couldn't agree on before the vote and so hardly surprising they don't ave one now - other than something they call Canada +++ whatever the heck that is - because just as Brexit means Brexit is meaningless - Canada +++ is meaningless until it is defined. We did not vote to Remain or for Canada +++. Yet still they call for a new PM to go back t the EU to renegotiate. Just meaningless pie-in-the-sky, never going to happen.

And as far as complaints over the 'Future Outline Deal' - the 26 pages of non-binding intention - well what did we expect at this point? After all from Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty...

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

I think that this is pretty much exactly where we have got to. We have a Withdrawal Agreement with a non-binding framework for a future relationship.

If you'd been following it all closely you would know that the term "Canada +++" was made by Donald Tusk, and the pluses related to 3 defined things that Tusk offered.

EDIT: and David Davis wanted to say yes to the Canada +++ deal when it was offered in December last year.

Does seem ironic that for someone who has been following every single breath of Brexit you didn't know. Are you following it at all or just shouting "I don't want Brexit" whilst stamping your foot?

 

[Old Skier]

Well the Leave campaign should have set out out clearly before the vote exactly what they would have wanted to have at the conclusion of the negotiations. But they didn't because they had no consistent and coherent view that would stand up to any detailed scrutiny. So they avoided that risk by just ignoring it. And we are today will still no alternative withdrawal agreement. And No Deal is not a negotiated agreement.

I voted to leave the EU, not to negotiate a deal. I am though, quite agreeable to an agreement where there are agreeable and equal benefits for both sides.

 

[Slime]

Let's just leave.
Europe have our address, let them get in touch with us.

 

[drdel]

I wonder how many of those top engineers were trained in the UK.

You are determined to 'put-down' anything non-Scottish and everything British: you're chip-on-shoulder blinkers on again. The vast majority... from the top of my head, here's a few Universities who specialise...

Birmingham
Cranfeild (Post Grad)
Imperial
Loughborough
Warwick

Cosworth Engineering have been training apprentices for over 5 decades in the area and supply advice to major manufacturers - Mercedes included!

 

[Hobbit]

You are determined to 'put-down' anything non-Scottish and everything British: you're chip-on-shoulder blinkers on again. The vast majority... from the top of my head, here's a few Universities who specialise...

Birmingham
Cranfeild (Post Grad)
Imperial
Loughborough
Warwick

Cosworth Engineering have been training apprentices for over 5 decades in the area and supply advice to major manufacturers - Mercedes included!

From what remember, going back to the late 70's pretty much every uni and tech college received sponsorship from big industries, and even tailored their courses to big local industries. In recent years the company I worked for used to visit the local uni and, with the aid of lecturers, set up industry specific assignments. I could go on but whats the point? Everyone know the UK is clueless when it comes to industry supporting eduction.

 

[Old Skier]

NSFW

https://www.facebook.com/223073124987666/posts/283212785640366

 

[SocketRocket]

I wonder how many of those top engineers were trained in the UK.

And why exactly do you wonder that. I put it to you that you are just trolling for a reaction.

 

[BubbaP]

...........

Also saw an interesting point raised by a Leave supporting MP. Almost everything that the EU wanted is contained in the Brexit withdrawal agreement which is legally enforceable. Almost everything the UK wanted is in the future roadmap document which isn't legally enforceable. No idea how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

I'll openly admit I have not been following the detail closely, but I was wondering about this. Might May and her team by selling the idea of leaving with what is considered by most not a great deal, but then once "out", start to move the goalposts, and when the EU kick up a fuss, "well we are not part of your club now". If this were to happen obviously there would be ramifications, but they may be more manageable.

 

[Foxholer]

I'd like to remind all those who are moaning about the quality of our engineers that the home of Formula 1 is here in the UK

Probably more about geography than technology!

Though UK should definitely be 'harvesting' the benifits of that!

Any actual examples of such benefits from such 'harvesting'?

While F1 might be something of a 'crown' for several hundred workers, it's by no means what is really needed for the vast majority of hundreds of thousands of 'normal' workers all around the country!

And it's those workers that the Government should really be doing their damndest to both keep in work and provide conditions (both personal and via company incentives) to 'improve their lot'!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Support me and my draft Brexit deal or it could result in a no Brexit deal says our desperate PM.

Ooooo that's a toughy Teresa

 

[Old Skier]

No problem according to same, end of the world according to others. Your point being?

 

[Old Skier]

F1 producing more technology and saftey to modern day motoring and someone fails to see the advantages of its workforce.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Can't we just agree we have some very advanced engineering and manufacturing skills and capabilities in this country. However due to global economic changes and government policy over the last few decades we are now relying heavily on services to shore up our economy, especially financial services. So whilst in theory it would be great if we could become a beacon of manufacturing excellence that will sustain our economy, in reality, due to the way our economy has now evolved, unfortunately manufacturing will only ever play a relatively niche role.