Boris the PM - a new beginning

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bluewolf said:
I was almost, almost with you there. The minor point we’ll have to agree to disagree on is that I don’t see Boris fighting dirty to get us out of this situation. But I do see him fighting dirty to get “himself” out of a situation that he may be causing.

I agree that we need a Fighter, I would just prefer that they were a Fighter with principles. That’s the person I’d want in the trenches alongside me (and I dislike the war metaphors in this situation as much as I disliked the golf club metaphors in the Brexit thread(s). ?)
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I'm almost, almost with you there;). The metric for Johnson to get himself out of any mess will be his success as a PM, and that includes this current crisis. In effect, if he wins, we win.

As for using metaphors, e.g. wars and golf clubs, they weren't used for emotive reasons, just as an example. I'm not into appealing to the Dunkirk spirit, just trying to pick something so diametrically opposed, i.e. a nun at war.
 
Wolf said:
Considering the alternative was Corbyn and the ludicrous manifesto Labour brought to the table it seems the majority of the country think so ??‍♂️

I didn't vote for either of those options but I'd still rather have what we've got than what the alternative was
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You mean what's been forced to be implemented now by a PM who's clearly is unhappy doing so? Just make sure you hold him to his words & do't go hiding when needed. :sneaky::sneaky:
 
2blue said:
Like NZ??
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C'mon Dave, you're comparing apples with oranges. You're holding up a country that is the most socially distanced from the rest of the world, that has one of the lowest population densities and one of the easiest to implement a policy of social distancing as the model for getting it right?!? That's a very poor example.

Now if the purpose of your example is to compare a fabulous PM with at totally untrustworthy worm, I'm with you but not as an example of a complex country fighting Covid.

2blue said:
EXACTLY..... are we really happy having a self-centered, cowardly, scheming liar in charge??
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I'd like to think most people wouldn't be happy but its about who can do the job the best, not who they are.
 
Hobbit said:
I'm almost, almost with you there;). The metric for Johnson to get himself out of any mess will be his success as a PM, and that includes this current crisis. In effect, if he wins, we win.

As for using metaphors, e.g. wars and golf clubs, they weren't used for emotive reasons, just as an example. I'm not into appealing to the Dunkirk spirit, just trying to pick something so diametrically opposed, i.e. a nun at war.
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With so many deaths already it will be difficult/impossible for any kind of "win" to be claimed... The best that can be hoped, is that lessons from hindsight are applied and there is not a 'bounce back', in the numbers, after lockdown is relaxed...
 
MegaSteve said:
With so many deaths already it will be difficult/impossible for any kind of "win" to be claimed... The best that can be hoped, is that lessons from hindsight are applied and there is not a 'bounce back', in the numbers, after lockdown is relaxed...
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Aren't we just wasting our time here splitting hairs on what version of win we mean? A 2-1 win is still a win but a goal was conceded. It might even have been an own goal. I'm sure everyone can come up with a version of win, and all of us will know what they mean.
 
Hobbit said:
C'mon Dave, you're comparing apples with oranges. You're holding up a country that is the most socially distanced from the rest of the world, that has one of the lowest population densities and one of the easiest to implement a policy of social distancing as the model for getting it right?!? That's a very poor example.
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Yes 7 sheep per person though it used to be 10. :LOL:
However it has the same % of Its population living in urban areas as the UK.

BUT...... of course it's the comparison of leaders!!
Now if the purpose of your example is to compare a fabulous PM with at totally untrustworthy worm, I'm with you but not as an example of a complex country fighting Covid.
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Far preferable to have a leader of the Left that understands the needs of the most vulnerable than the 'untrustworthy worm' we've been lumbered with. Not a fan, but I bet Abbott would have identified those issues far earlier. :unsure: & before the knobs jump in.... it's now't to do with numbers. :sneaky::sneaky:
Also..... just asking for a friend...... what did S Bank AFC ever win? :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
IanM said:
I am on the phone to Mayor of Oban to see if he can help with traffic congestion in Central London after this is all over!
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So did he say it's about understanding the needs of your community & not forgetting those most vulnerable as well as advising the folly of continuing to allow building work to continue in the city center..... all pretty obvious really. :p:p
 
IanM said:
No wins to be had here. Folk have died. Jobs and businesses have been decimated.

No value in any party politics here. The only losers will be those folk who chose to try and play it.
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So party politics and political ideology has not played any part in any governments responses and how many people have died and businesses decimated globally as part of that response? If not then what has made a difference, levels of empathy of the leaders, competence of the leaders, luck as it's all random?
 
IanM said:
No wins to be had here. Folk have died. Jobs and businesses have been decimated.

No value in any party politics here. The only losers will be those folk who chose to try and play it.
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Yep.... all about sympathy & understanding whatever their politics!! & we've seen where that's taken us so far. :cautious::cautious:
EDIT.... yeah, well said HK...... 'empathy'....... massively lacking so far...... on here & there!!
 
bluewolf said:
I was almost, almost with you there. The minor point we’ll have to agree to disagree on is that I don’t see Boris fighting dirty to get us out of this situation. But I do see him fighting dirty to get “himself” out of a situation that he may be causing.

I agree that we need a Fighter, I would just prefer that they were a Fighter with principles. That’s the person I’d want in the trenches alongside me (and I dislike the war metaphors in this situation as much as I disliked the golf club metaphors in the Brexit thread(s). ?)
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I dont know, war analogies can be quite effective in these times. We can consider people from all backgrounds coming together to rid our shores of a dangerous foe that is determed to ruin our lives and and destroy our ecconomy. Well enough about Corbyn for now ?
 
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Hacker Khan said:
So party politics and political ideology has not played any part in any governments responses and how many people have died and businesses decimated globally as part of that response? If not then what has made a difference, levels of empathy of the leaders, competence of the leaders, luck as it's all random?
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How would you prefer them to have played it? Was there an alternative to social distancing, stay at home, shutting down places where people gather, stopping the NHS from being overrun and having to decide who they help and who they leave. Looking over our shoulders is a pastime for less trying times.
 
Hobbit said:
And in your next post you'll praise him and the govt. You've been doing this flip-flopping for weeks.

BTW, chuffed you got good news today.
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You are right - I do flip-flop. I flip-flop all the time between not really trusting him and expressing my feelings accordingly - and knowing that I have to trust him and so can be accepting and understanding with him on his dealing with this hellishly difficult predicament. And I suspect for me that is how it forever be.
 
Hobbit said:
I'm almost, almost with you there;). The metric for Johnson to get himself out of any mess will be his success as a PM, and that includes this current crisis. In effect, if he wins, we win.
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Whilst I do agree, I just think that in the modern political landscape, where hyper-partisanship is much more common than it used to be, measuring success is almost impossible. There are more than enough people who will back Boris (and the Conservatives) whatever they do. To paraphrase DT. Boris could shoot an old lady in the street, and the supporters will claim that it was a heroic act!

And yes, before anyone says it, this works both ways. I grew up (and still live) in a Labour heartland. My family have always voted Labour. I've predominantly voted Labour (I've voted Lib Dem once and have protest voted Green in EU elections). I'll never vote Conservative. I don't believe their economic policies work for me and mine. However, if a Labour leader did something I thought showed a complete lack of character and or principle, then I'd want them to apologise at the very least.
 
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