Blades v GI. Something to Ponder

[Golfnut1957]

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, this isn't the average, monthly debate on the merits of each.

I am what the members of GolfWRX would call an equipment hoe, hopefully reformed, but I have probably had more changes in equipment this year than most would have in a lifetime, and when it comes to irons my weapon of choice has mostly been blades.

Occasionally my swing will break down, and I use this as an excused to try something else, two weeks ago it was a set of Mizuno Hot Metal Pro to replace the MP20mb in the signature. I'm getting older and decided I needed some help, despite the purchase in the last 12 months of similar clubs in the form of TM P770 and Titleist T200, neither of which last more than a couple of weeks in the bag.

I played the HMP over 3 rounds and hit a couple of shots during the first round which were "wow" but over three rounds that was it, nothing special, so on Sunday I carried out a little experiment. 3 six irons as follows:

Mizuno MP20 mb, KBS $ Taper lite stiff, 105 gm, high flight. 30 degrees of loft.
Mizuno Hot Metal Pro, Modus 120 stiff, 114gm, mid/high flight, 25 degrees of loft.
TM R7 TP, TTDG S300, 130gm, low flight, 31 degrees of loft.

At the range I hit two balls with each club, alternating between clubs. Before I was warmed up the S300 was eliminated. Back min the day that was a beast of a combination, but now it was fairly weak and right.

Now this is where it gets interesting. There was no difference between the two Mizuno clubs, both carrying about 170yds (I used my rangefinder) despite the 5 degrees difference in loft. The MP20 had a much higher ball fight due to a combination of the shaft and the low CG, the HMP was a mid/high flight. The results on the range only confirmed what I was feeling on the course, that I wasn't getting the expected performance improvement (longer/higher) out of the HMP.

This has completely bemused me, and the only answer I can come up with is that the mass behind the sweet spot on the mb is increasing the inertia and therefore the distance, in comparison with the HMP. However, this is a completely unscientific assumption devoid of facts and the truth is I have no idea what is going on.

 

[Backsticks]

Whats going on, is whats not going on - there being no difference between clubs. You have switched every few weeks. Nothing gave you jump in performace to stick with it. A side to side showed no difference. Because you were looking at actual performance. Its the expected result. And why club reviews really just focus on looks, sound, and 'feel'. Being unable to detect any real performance differences, they fill the dead air or page with opinions on the cosmetic.

 

[Jason.H]

Maybe the KBS shaft being considerably lighter is yielding a touch more speed. A more interesting test would be all 3 heads with the same shaft on a launch monitor then it would give a true reflection.
Did you get custom fit for all 3 sets as the shafts although all stiff are quite different?

I have Mizuno pro 225,s with s300,s and love the forgiveness they offer. They let me know it’s a miss hit by sound and feel but hardly lose distance. I had a set of TM RAC blades in the mid 2000,s and any kind of miss hit fell way short of target.

 

[Ian_George]

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, this isn't the average, monthly debate on the merits of each.

I am what the members of GolfWRX would call an equipment hoe, hopefully reformed, but I have probably had more changes in equipment this year than most would have in a lifetime, and when it comes to irons my weapon of choice has mostly been blades.

Occasionally my swing will break down, and I use this as an excused to try something else, two weeks ago it was a set of Mizuno Hot Metal Pro to replace the MP20mb in the signature. I'm getting older and decided I needed some help, despite the purchase in the last 12 months of similar clubs in the form of TM P770 and Titleist T200, neither of which last more than a couple of weeks in the bag.

I played the HMP over 3 rounds and hit a couple of shots during the first round which were "wow" but over three rounds that was it, nothing special, so on Sunday I carried out a little experiment. 3 six irons as follows:

Mizuno MP20 mb, KBS $ Taper lite stiff, 105 gm, high flight. 30 degrees of loft.
Mizuno Hot Metal Pro, Modus 120 stiff, 114gm, mid/high flight, 25 degrees of loft.
TM R7 TP, TTDG S300, 130gm, low flight, 31 degrees of loft.

At the range I hit two balls with each club, alternating between clubs. Before I was warmed up the S300 was eliminated. Back min the day that was a beast of a combination, but now it was fairly weak and right.

Now this is where it gets interesting. There was no difference between the two Mizuno clubs, both carrying about 170yds (I used my rangefinder) despite the 5 degrees difference in loft. The MP20 had a much higher ball fight due to a combination of the shaft and the low CG, the HMP was a mid/high flight. The results on the range only confirmed what I was feeling on the course, that I wasn't getting the expected performance improvement (longer/higher) out of the HMP.

This has completely bemused me, and the only answer I can come up with is that the mass behind the sweet spot on the mb is increasing the inertia and therefore the distance, in comparison with the HMP. However, this is a completely unscientific assumption devoid of facts and the truth is I have no idea what is going on.

Too many variables to really suggest anything! Though I think the lighter shaft might be having an effect. Oh, and think 'inertia' should be 'impetus'.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I can't see anything to be bemused about.
One set of irons will do what it does when I hit shots with them.
Another set of irons will do what it does when I hit shots with them.
That's what I would expect to be happening.
And it does happen - every time.
In my experience.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I can't see anything to be bemused about.
One set of irons will do what it does when I hit shots with them.
Another set of irons will do what it does when I hit shots with them.
That's what I would expect to be happening.
And it does happen - every time.
In my experience.

I would imagine that whenever you take a set of clubs out you will hit the 5 iron further than the 6 iron, otherwise what is the point in a set of irons.

In this case the HMP 6 iron is lofted half a club stronger than my MP20 5 iron, it is almost as strong as the 4 iron, but the distance is the same as the MP20 6 iron. Does nobody find that odd?

The variables are the head construction and the shafts, length is the same, and there is not a lot of difference in the weights or the flight characteristics.

 

[Springveldt]

No way of knowing without getting on a launch monitor but since there is 5 degrees static loft difference between them you would expect at least a 10 yard carry distance difference. Must be something to do with how you are delivering them that means they both have around the same dynamic loft at impact.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, this isn't the average, monthly debate on the merits of each.

I am what the members of GolfWRX would call an equipment hoe, hopefully reformed, but I have probably had more changes in equipment this year than most would have in a lifetime, and when it comes to irons my weapon of choice has mostly been blades.

Occasionally my swing will break down, and I use this as an excused to try something else, two weeks ago it was a set of Mizuno Hot Metal Pro to replace the MP20mb in the signature. I'm getting older and decided I needed some help, despite the purchase in the last 12 months of similar clubs in the form of TM P770 and Titleist T200, neither of which last more than a couple of weeks in the bag.

I played the HMP over 3 rounds and hit a couple of shots during the first round which were "wow" but over three rounds that was it, nothing special, so on Sunday I carried out a little experiment. 3 six irons as follows:

Mizuno MP20 mb, KBS $ Taper lite stiff, 105 gm, high flight. 30 degrees of loft.
Mizuno Hot Metal Pro, Modus 120 stiff, 114gm, mid/high flight, 25 degrees of loft.
TM R7 TP, TTDG S300, 130gm, low flight, 31 degrees of loft.

At the range I hit two balls with each club, alternating between clubs. Before I was warmed up the S300 was eliminated. Back min the day that was a beast of a combination, but now it was fairly weak and right.

Now this is where it gets interesting. There was no difference between the two Mizuno clubs, both carrying about 170yds (I used my rangefinder) despite the 5 degrees difference in loft. The MP20 had a much higher ball fight due to a combination of the shaft and the low CG, the HMP was a mid/high flight. The results on the range only confirmed what I was feeling on the course, that I wasn't getting the expected performance improvement (longer/higher) out of the HMP.

This has completely bemused me, and the only answer I can come up with is that the mass behind the sweet spot on the mb is increasing the inertia and therefore the distance, in comparison with the HMP. However, this is a completely unscientific assumption devoid of facts and the truth is I have no idea what is going on.

Your ball strike isn‘t as consistent as you imagine - variability being more within you than in the clubs? ?

 

[BubbaP]

As others mentioned, proper launch monitor needed. Suspect the combination of shaft & head is helping you find the middle better with the 20s. Range balls probably spin less also which may help the high launching 20s but may harm the lower spinning hmps.

Can't help but focus in on this ..
"I wasn't getting the expected performance improvement (longer/higher) out of the HMP."
You already hit a good distance, would longer actually help you score better, or should you, with a 'scoring club', be more focused on consistency and dispersion?
Good luck

 

[Jason.H]

I would imagine that whenever you take a set of clubs out you will hit the 5 iron further than the 6 iron, otherwise what is the point in a set of irons.

In this case the HMP 6 iron is lofted half a club stronger than my MP20 5 iron, it is almost as strong as the 4 iron, but the distance is the same as the MP20 6 iron. Does nobody find that odd?

The variables are the head construction and the shafts, length is the same, and there is not a lot of difference in the weights or the flight characteristics.

Out of interest what is you handicap?

 

[Deleted member 25575]

Unless I’ve not understood your post, your dataset is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusions from.
Hitting 2 shots with each club won’t get you even close to an answer, catch one a hair thin or a little fat and the difference is easily explained. Add to that the fact you are using a range finder, which from 170ish away, with the best will in the world shooting down a range to where you think the ball landed that won’t be accurate imho.

As others have said, get on a good launch monitor and hit more shots with each club. I don’t know your handicap so it may be unfair, but hitting 2 shots and expecting good solid results seems unlikely unless you’re a fabulous ball striker playing on tour

 

[Voyager EMH]

I would imagine that whenever you take a set of clubs out you will hit the 5 iron further than the 6 iron, otherwise what is the point in a set of irons.

In this case the HMP 6 iron is lofted half a club stronger than my MP20 5 iron, it is almost as strong as the 4 iron, but the distance is the same as the MP20 6 iron. Does nobody find that odd?

The variables are the head construction and the shafts, length is the same, and there is not a lot of difference in the weights or the flight characteristics.

I have a Forgan 9-iron c1961 that is 49 degrees and a Ping UW c2008 that is 52 degrees. Hardly a mm difference in shaft length.
I hit the Ping a little further than the Forgan.
And no, I do not find that odd at all.
Another person with different swing characteristics might have a different experience with these two clubs than I do.
Again, I would not find that bemusing either.

 

[Golfnut1957]

No way of knowing without getting on a launch monitor but since there is 5 degrees static loft difference between them you would expect at least a 10 yard carry distance difference. Must be something to do with how you are delivering them that means they both have around the same dynamic loft at impact.

That would be the answer, a launch monitor. It should give me the figures to better understand what is happening.

 

[Orikoru]

Whenever we talk about strong lofts someone invariably mentions that they are lofted strong to counteract the forgiveness 'trampoline' factor that makes them fly too high otherwise. It's not necessarily just to make them go further. Personally I use them for forgiveness across the face, but I guess they do go further if I hit one pure out of the middle. Luckily that doesn't happen very often.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Your ball strike isn‘t as consistent as you imagine - variability being more within you than in the clubs? ?

Possibly, but 3 rounds on the course not getting the distances I was expecting from the jacked lofts and two baskets of balls using both clubs, which after warming up were grouped well enough to make a meaningful assessment, was enough to inform me that it was the club.

 

[Golfnut1957]

As others mentioned, proper launch monitor needed. Suspect the combination of shaft & head is helping you find the middle better with the 20s. Range balls probably spin less also which may help the high launching 20s but may harm the lower spinning hmps.

Can't help but focus in on this ..
"I wasn't getting the expected performance improvement (longer/higher) out of the HMP."
You already hit a good distance, would longer actually help you score better, or should you, with a 'scoring club', be more focused on consistency and dispersion?
Good luck

No, I just can't help myself

 

[Golfnut1957]

Out of interest what is you handicap?

8, been a low of 6. Putting and driving are my nemesis, irons and chipping my strength.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Unless I’ve not understood your post, your dataset is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusions from.
Hitting 2 shots with each club won’t get you even close to an answer, catch one a hair thin or a little fat and the difference is easily explained. Add to that the fact you are using a range finder, which from 170ish away, with the best will in the world shooting down a range to where you think the ball landed that won’t be accurate imho.

As others have said, get on a good launch monitor and hit more shots with each club. I don’t know your handicap so it may be unfair, but hitting 2 shots and expecting good solid results seems unlikely unless you’re a fabulous ball striker playing on tour

You are right about the launch monitor.
You miss read, it was two baskets hitting two shots with each club and alternating between clubs.
The range is elevated, I wasn't guessing where they were landing I could see the balls and measure to them.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Whenever we talk about strong lofts someone invariably mentions that they are lofted strong to counteract the forgiveness 'trampoline' factor that makes them fly too high otherwise. It's not necessarily just to make them go further. Personally I use them for forgiveness across the face, but I guess they do go further if I hit one pure out of the middle. Luckily that doesn't happen very often.

And maybe that is the answer, I wasn't hitting them out of the middle. They have no feel, so I couldn't tell where on the face I was striking it, unlike the blade where I know exactly where on the face it is contacting the ball.

It would be a bit odd that I was middling the MP20 but not the HMP, not impossible though.

 

[Orikoru]

And maybe that is the answer, I wasn't hitting them out of the middle. They have no feel, so I couldn't tell where on the face I was striking it, unlike the blade where I know exactly where on the face it is contacting the ball.

It would be a bit odd that I was middling the MP20 but not the HMP, not impossible though.

Definitely possible given the smaller sample size. As I say, hitting one slightly off centre they still go the distance you expect - which is why I use them - but as you've stated there it can also be a negative if you prefer to feel where you've struck it. The odd pured one will likely go 5 yards further. I have flown a couple of greens in the last few weeks while getting used to my new irons to be fair.

Maybe the shafts in the MP20s are better suited (as others have said) hence you're able to strike them better out of the middle of the face from a couple of shots with each.