Beckenham golf course to close

[jpjeffery]

(This is a bit of a repost, but I think my continuation of the previous thread may have got missed in a flurry of other topics)

From Lewisham Council:

Decision details
The Future of Beckenham Place Park

Find out more about this issue
Decision status: For Determination

Is Key decision?: Yes

Is subject to call in?: No

Decision:

Having considered an officer report, two tabled addendums, written representations from the Save the 18 campaign and a presentation by the Cabinet Member for the Public Realm, Councillor Rachel Onikosi, the Mayor agreed that:

(1) the continuation of work on the restoration of Beckenham Place Park be approved, and that this will include:

a) Public consultation about park design and facilities.

b) On-going design work and accompanying technical work by consultants, to be funded by the HLF grant.

c) Submission of a phase 2 bid to the HLF for approval of the detailed plans

(2) the closure of the existing golf course by 31st December 2016 be approved.

Publication date: 18/02/2016

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Having worked in the area for far too many years, I will say that whilst I am always sorry to see courses and any sports areana close, this has never appeared to be a busy course. In the current climate, can a local authority justify spending money on something such as a golf course over vital services to it's residents?
At least there are other public courses not too far away.

 

[C&R]

It's a sad day😞

 

[Hacker Khan]

All local authorities are under massive pressure to save money. I would not be surprised if every LA owned course will either be sold as a going concern or sold to housing developers very soon.

 

[Crow]

All local authorities are under massive pressure to save money. I would not be surprised if every LA owned course will either be sold as a going concern or sold to housing developers very soon.

Maybe the Parliamentary Golf Group will be able to help, drop them an email and see what they're made of......

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?82021-Golf-is-Saved!&highlight=government

 

[delc]

Maybe the Parliamentary Golf Group will be able to help, drop them an email and see what they're made of......

http://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/showthread.php?82021-Golf-is-Saved!&highlight=government

In the South-East of England, it is mainly the Municipal and Pay and Play courses that are being shut down and redeveloped, e.g. Blue Mountain and Beckenham, and I know that Ruislip and Harefield Place are under threat from HS2. The golf industry should worry about this, because a lot of people start playing on such courses, and if they get hooked, join a private club later on in life. Not everyone can afford, or are prepared to pay several £k up front on joining and membership fees at a private club on the off chance that they might like the game! So really we are cutting off a source of potential new members!

 

[jpjeffery]

Having worked in the area for far too many years, I will say that whilst I am always sorry to see courses and any sports areana close, this has never appeared to be a busy course. In the current climate, can a local authority justify spending money on something such as a golf course over vital services to it's residents?
At least there are other public courses not too far away.

No, but...

The council do indeed say they're doing this to save money, but one of their own officers is on record stating that the costs of maintaining the park will not reduce following closure of the course. Which would mean they're closing something that raises revenue for no sound reason.

This is a course that has produced millions of pounds for the council over the years, but while usage of the course is down from the days when it was an entry in the Guinness Book Of Records for busiest course in Europe, usage has been seen to rise in recent years.

But what are they proposing replacing the course with? A lake, a BMX park, rope climbing, and an "Events Space" (for which they've not identified any actual events). Where they want to put the Events Space has no access for vehicles to bring in equipment. There are no proposals for charging for use of the ropes nor the BMX park, and any income from events on the lake we feel are unlikely to outweigh the maintenance costs.

They're also suggesting refurbishing the mansion's homesteads in to a visitors' centre and café. This is probably their one actually good idea.

Should the council succeed in their application for Heritage Lottery Funds (they're applying for $4.9m - which can't surely be enough to create a lake, build all the other features, and repair the fire damage to the homesteads and then convert in to a visitors' and café), what will they do? Advertise and promote it, of course. And so they should, but if instead they advertise and promote the course, and fix up the practice nets, the greens, and tees, they'd get much more revenue from the golf course which could then pay for other features at the Downham end of the park without the need to impinge on other tax-payer funded budgets.

There, a nice (over-)long response.

 

[jpjeffery]

All local authorities are under massive pressure to save money. I would not be surprised if every LA owned course will either be sold as a going concern or sold to housing developers very soon.

Quite, and BPP GC used to pay not only for itself but all the other parks in the borough. However, Lewisham Council failed to nurture it, instead allowing it to fall in to disrepair thus putting may golfers off from returning. BPP GC should be making money for Lewisham, but they've no clue how to make that happen (or they just don't want to).

 

[shivas irons]

Golf simply isnt as popular as it used to be and courses are closing up and down the country, the cost to maintain a course simply out weights the profits nowdays.
Its a shame the place is to close but understandable.

 

[Jacko_G]

Its like the Troon municipal courses up here. 15-20 years ago they were outstanding, well maintained and a joy to play. I played two of them again last summer and they were dire. Poor greens, dreadful bunkers, poor definition, hundreds of divots, really sad to see. Clearly just a cash cow run by the council to fleece money with minimum investment in return.

Sad to see the obvious demise.

 

[SammmeBee]

Golf simply isnt as popular as it used to be and courses are closing up and down the country, the cost to maintain a course simply out weights the profits nowdays.
Its a shame the place is to close but understandable.

Biggest generalisation of 2016?!

 

[shivas irons]

Its like the Troon municipal courses up here. 15-20 years ago they were outstanding, well maintained and a joy to play. I played two of them again last summer and they were dire. Poor greens, dreadful bunkers, poor definition, hundreds of divots, really sad to see. Clearly just a cash cow run by the council to fleece money with minimum investment in return.

Sad to see the obvious demise.

I played a lot of golf north of the border in the 90's and golf seemed to be a household pastime back then I was amazed how popular it was.I havent played any golf in Scotland since then, is golf still as popular there nowdays, are you getting the closures that we are getting in the South?

 

[Jacko_G]

A few courses going to the wall, east coast seems to be effected with closures more than the west.

 

[Robster59]

They're actually re-opening a Municipal course in Widnes.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/local-news/new-golf-course-built-formerly-10807005
As stated above, I used to play this course before I formerly joined a members course and the next nearest munis are in St Helens and Warrington.
The background story of how this course came about and eventually closed is actually very interesting.
[SUP]
St Michael Jubilee Golf Club, Widnes, Cheshire.
St Michael's Municipal Golf Course was situated close to the centre of Widnes off the Runcorn Bridge. The course was constructed in two phases in the 1970s and 80s, reclaiming over 30 hectares of land from old chemical waste tips. The course has been closed since 2004 following the discovery of arsenic. To add to the [/SUP][SUP]woes[/SUP][SUP] the clubhouse was destroyed in an arson attack. Remediation work will involve resurfacing part of the old course and creating a new channel for Stewards Brook, a watercourse which crosses the 18-hole course. [/SUP][SUP]
It was originally a 9 hole course, eventually extending to 18.

They basically couldn't think of anything to do with the old chemical heap so they covered it with 1000's of square metres of plastic and thousand of tonnes of topsoil. The chemical heap was big enough to accommodate a 9 hole golf course.[/SUP]

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I played a lot of golf north of the border in the 90's and golf seemed to be a household pastime back then I was amazed how popular it was.I havent played any golf in Scotland since then, is golf still as popular there nowdays, are you getting the closures that we are getting in the South?

About the same, pro rata.
Council courses will be most hit as there has been a freeze on council community charge now for 6/7 years.
New propriety courses are struggling.
Survival of the fittest and not too many are 'fit'
Subs and green fees are very low at 'ordinary club courses'.

 

[jpjeffery]

Golf simply isnt as popular as it used to be and courses are closing up and down the country, the cost to maintain a course simply out weights the profits nowdays.
Its a shame the place is to close but understandable.

As I said above, according to council staff the cost of maintaining the park without the golf course is the same as maintaining it with the golf course (but without its income!)

 

[Blue in Munich]

Having worked in the area for far too many years, I will say that whilst I am always sorry to see courses and any sports areana close, this has never appeared to be a busy course. In the current climate, can a local authority justify spending money on something such as a golf course over vital services to it's residents?
At least there are other public courses not too far away.

I can only suggest that you never tried getting a game there then. I was born and brought up about 5 miles away and in my growing up years and early working years there was always a queue to play there; at weekends the cars started queuing at about 2am. It was always in good condition and the little cave of a pro shop was always well stocked & well run by Bill Woodman and his staff. As others have said, if this had been properly run it should make Lewisham Borough Council a profit. However if Lewisham Borough Council is as I remember it, they will be more than happy to squander public money on other left field projects and run a symbol of the entitled rich into the ground.

You'll have to excuse my shaky knowledge of South London and North Kent, I've obviously missed all the other public courses nearby. Bromley, otherwise known as Royal Magpie, is what I would remember as the closest but I'd say that's a good 3 miles, High Elms or Addington Court are considerably further, and Lullingstone further still. Hardly easily accessible to the younger generation or those without cars. Where are all the public courses in the area that I've missed or forgotten?

 

[jpjeffery]

Golf simply isnt as popular as it used to be and courses are closing up and down the country, the cost to maintain a course simply out weights the profits nowdays.
Its a shame the place is to close but understandable.

As I said above, according to council staff the cost of maintaining the park without the golf course is the same as maintaining it with the golf course (but without its À Aqaba qqaqaq as qà!)

 

[Bunkermagnet]

But what are they proposing replacing the course with? A lake, a BMX park, rope climbing, and an "Events Space" (for which they've not identified any actual events). Where they want to put the Events Space has no access for vehicles to bring in equipment. There are no proposals for charging for use of the ropes nor the BMX park, and any income from events on the lake we feel are unlikely to outweigh the maintenance costs.

They're also suggesting refurbishing the mansion's homesteads in to a visitors' centre and café. This is probably their one actually good idea.

So a lake.....might fishing (which is the most poopular hobby if I remeber correctly) bring in revenue, and BMX......a much better idea for kids to get out and excersize and often the parks are busy be a much better idea to give the kids of today somewhere to go and have fun?

 

[jpjeffery]

So a lake.....might fishing (which is the most poopular hobby if I remeber correctly) bring in revenue, and BMX......a much better idea for kids to get out and excersize and often the parks are busy be a much better idea to give the kids of today somewhere to go and have fun?

Agreed but the park is huge and the golf course takes up only about 1/3 of the space. There's room for both!