Ball Deflected by Power Line - Choice to Replay

[nickjdavis]

Like many courses we have a couple of holes which are crossed by power lines and have in place the appropriate local rule that mandates that a player must replay the stroke.

The question was raised at a recent 2019 rules presentation as to whether it could be made a local rule that a player had a choice as to whether to replay his shot if his ball hits a power line. After a brief dig through the "guide to the 2019 rules book", the answer was given that a committee was unable to put in place such a local rule.

I'm in the process of compiling the answers to all the questions that were raised on the night and, reading the wording on page 476 in the "model local rules" part of the book it says that "A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line should not be implemented"

Now, the words "should not" are used in the above guidance, not "must not".

So....could, if they really wanted to, a committee adopt such a local rule giving players the option of replaying a shot (and by default therefore....the option of not replaying the stroke).

What is the logic behind denying the players a choice?

 

[bobmac]

I've always thought this was wrong.
You could hit a perfect drive down the middle and you are forced to hit another one.

 

[doublebogey7]

I've always thought this was wrong.
You could hit a perfect drive down the middle and you are forced to hit another one.

It is one of the basic principals of he rules that you do not get a choice of where you play your next shot from without there being some consequence.

 

[Colin L]

I've always thought this was wrong.
You could hit a perfect drive down the middle and you are forced to hit another one.

If it is deflected by a power line, its perfection is dented a bit, don't you think?

The rationale , as I see it, is that it is fairer to have the same result for everyone whether the power line gave a good shot a bad outcome or a bad one a good outcome.

 

[bobmac]

It is one of the basic principals of he rules that you do not get a choice of where you play your next shot from without there being some consequence.

How about if your ball lies in GUR, do you not get a choice there?

 

[bobmac]

If it is deflected by a power line, its perfection is dented a bit, don't you think?

The rationale , as I see it, is that it is fairer to have the same result for everyone whether the power line gave a good shot a bad outcome or a bad one a good outcome.

If the power lines are 50 yards away I agree but if they are 250 away then the ball will be dropping anyway.

 

[rulie]

How about if your ball lies in GUR, do you not get a choice there?

Yes, you get a choice between taking relief or playing it as it lies (except if it's a no play zone). But you don't get to take relief (with another ball) and then decide which of those two balls you want to play - that is the issue with the initial suggestion.

 

[bobmac]

Yes, you get a choice between taking relief or playing it as it lies (except if it's a no play zone). But you don't get to take relief (with another ball) and then decide which of those two balls you want to play - that is the issue with the initial suggestion.

Yes I know the rules of GUR.
What I was saying was if your ball hits a power line, you should have the choice of playing it as it lies or cancelling it and putting another ball in play

 

[cliveb]

Isn't one of the principles that if something could result in good or bad luck, you can't benefit from good luck but be protected from bad luck?
(You can't have your cake and eat it).
Hitting an overhead cable is an example of such a situation.

 

[nickjdavis]

Yes, you get a choice between taking relief or playing it as it lies (except if it's a no play zone). But you don't get to take relief (with another ball) and then decide which of those two balls you want to play - that is the issue with the initial suggestion.

If by the "initial suggestion" you are talking about my original post then I don't know where you got the idea that i was suggesting that a player plays two balls and then chooses between them. I said no such thing and frankly struggle to see how you have interpreted what i said in the way you seem to have done!!

 

[nickjdavis]

Isn't one of the principles that if something could result in good or bad luck, you can't benefit from good luck but be protected from bad luck?
(You can't have your cake and eat it).

This I like as an explanation.

 

[jim8flog]

It is interesting that the wording in the Committee procedures is

If a permanent overhead power line may interfere with the reasonable play of a hole, a Committee can require that if a ball hits the power line (and towers, support wires or poles supporting the power line), the stroke does not count and the player must play the stroke again.

I take this to read that a committee may either

(a) Have the LR as written

or

(b) not have the LR at all

Therefore a club cannot write a LR which gives the player the option to replay the shot or play as it lies.

 

[clubchamp98]

Playing in the scratch team at my club years ago we had this .
There was a thin power line over a short par three to power a generator in greenkeepers hut.
My op glanced the line and got a hole in one.
He was busy celebrating and doing a Hale Irwin to the few spectators when our team captain told him he had to play again due to hitting the cable.
I always thought this was wrong , and it’s just the same as hitting a tree branch.
But the rule was there in black and white.

I won the hole with a 2, and beat him one up that didn’t go down well.

 

[rulie]

If by the "initial suggestion" you are talking about my original post then I don't know where you got the idea that i was suggesting that a player plays two balls and then chooses between them. I said no such thing and frankly struggle to see how you have interpreted what i said in the way you seem to have done!!

Apologies if I misinterpreted your initial post. However, I see that "choice" of replay or not as similar to playing two balls. In fact, in a previous version of the Rules, this Local Rule included the language "a well-played ball" hitting the power line. This was removed since nobody wanted to try and define "well-played".

Further about the Committee Procedures - a quote from section 8L, Unauthorized Local Rules, (my emphasis)
"In addition, Committees must not write a Local Rule that goes beyond the authorized Local Rules in ways which compromise the basic principles of the Rules of Golf."

 

[drdel]

We have a similar situation. Since the pylons and cables are a potential 'outside' influence making everyone replay their shot seems the fairest ruling.

 

[nickjdavis]

Apologies if I misinterpreted your initial post. However, I see that "choice" of replay or not as similar to playing two balls. In fact, in a previous version of the Rules, this Local Rule included the language "a well-played ball" hitting the power line. This was removed since nobody wanted to try and define "well-played".

Further about the Committee Procedures - a quote from section 8L, Unauthorized Local Rules, (my emphasis)
"In addition, Committees must not write a Local Rule that goes beyond the authorized Local Rules in ways which compromise the basic principles of the Rules of Golf."

Thats fair enough...I guess the quote from 8L supercedes any doubt I may have about the use of the wording "should not", when referring to whether a committee may introduce a local rule. If it had said must not then the question would never have arisen!!!

I was surprised in that the current rules are very clear as to the intended differences between words such as may, should and must, but can find no similar clarification in the forthcoming books.

 

[rulie]

Thats fair enough...I guess the quote from 8L supercedes any doubt I may have about the use of the wording "should not", when referring to whether a committee may introduce a local rule. If it had said must not then the question would never have arisen!!!

I was surprised in that the current rules are very clear as to the intended differences between words such as may, should and must, but can find no similar clarification in the forthcoming books.

Agree. Same can be said about "a" and "the", as in ball, or bunker or ?

 

[rulefan]

It is interesting that the wording in the Committee procedures is

If a permanent overhead power line may interfere with the reasonable play of a hole, a Committee can require that if a ball hits the power line (and towers, support wires or poles supporting the power line), the stroke does not count and the player must play the stroke again.

I take this to read that a committee may either

(a) Have the LR as written

or

(b) not have the LR at all

Therefore a club cannot write a LR which gives the player the option to replay the shot or play as it lies.

Exactly right. The RBs have changed their view.

 

[rulie]

Exactly right. The RBs have changed their view.

Changed their view from what to what?

 

[rulefan]

Changed their view from what to what?

The opening this provides
"A Local Rule that gives a player the option to replay the stroke for a ball that hits a power line should not be implemented"
as opposed to
Therefore a club cannot write a LR which gives the player the option to replay the shot or play as it lies.