Backstopping

[backwoodsman]

I'm just intrigued that the OP keeps referring to a/the "backstop rule". And wondering what rule is that? Yes there's guidance about backstopping, but not a rule.

Notwithstanding that, imho, a ball lying two feet from the hole for a shot from 40yd away is not a backstop & not conferring any real advantage. (Two inches and I might think differently). If the ball is played, strikes the stationary ball, and stops advantageously, then you well missed the hole & its just a big slice of good luck. Which we all get now & again.

 

[rulefan]

I'm just intrigued that the OP keeps referring to a/the "backstop rule". And wondering what rule is that? Yes there's guidance about backstopping, but not a rule.

Why do think Rule 15.3a would not qualify?

 

[jim8flog]

I'm just intrigued that the OP keeps referring to a/the "backstop rule". And wondering what rule is that? Yes there's guidance about backstopping, but not a rule.

.

The mention of backstopping is included as the clarification to Rule 15.3 (see post #2)and therefore is a rule in the same way an interpretation would be.

 

[backwoodsman]

Why do think Rule 15.3a would not qualify?

The mention of backstopping is included as the clarification to Rule 15.3 (see post #2)and therefore is a rule in the same way an interpretation would be.

Ok, my bad. But I'm still to be fully convinced the rule is about backstopping per se.

 

[rulefan]

Ok, my bad. But I'm still to be fully convinced the rule is about backstopping per se.

But it certainly embraces it.

15.3 Ball or Ball-Marker Helping or Interfering with Play
a. Ball on Putting Green Helping Play
This Rule applies only to a ball at rest on the putting green.

If you reasonably believe that a ball on the putting green might help anyone’s play (such as by serving as a possible backstop near the hole), .........

 

[backwoodsman]

But it certainly embraces it.

15.3 Ball or Ball-Marker Helping or Interfering with Play
a. Ball on Putting Green Helping Play
This Rule applies only to a ball at rest on the putting green.

If you reasonably believe that a ball on the putting green might help anyone’s play (such as by serving as a possible backstop near the hole), .........

Fair point

 

[Slab]

If Player A intends marking their ball shouldn’t they go & mark it without delay?
Putting a wedge away and getting a putter out after taking their shot, without even looking at or talking to player B (as described in opening post) doesn’t sound like Player A has any intention of marking their ball before Player B plays

If you're Player B how are you supposed to know that it is Player A's 'intent to mark' when instead of doing so they are turned away & swapping out clubs

 

[clubchamp98]

If Player A intends marking their ball shouldn’t they go & mark it without delay?
Putting a wedge away and getting a putter out after taking their shot, without even looking at or talking to player B (as described in opening post) doesn’t sound like Player A has any intention of marking their ball before Player B plays

If you're Player B how are you supposed to know that it is Player A's 'intent to mark' when instead of doing so they are turned away & swapping out clubs

Most golfers would put their wedge away first imo.
It depends how far away the hole is , 20yds in op.
Or walk over mark ball ,
so your moving while B is playing walking back to Your bag . Then back to putt out.
Dosnt take long to put it away and get your putter 10 seconds if your bag is by you.
But yes all he has to say is “ I will mark that now”

 

[Slab]

Most golfers would put their wedge away first imo.
It depends how far away the hole is , 20yds in op.
Or walk over mark ball ,
so your moving while B is playing walking back to Your bag . Then back to putt out.
Dosnt take long to put it away and get your putter 10 seconds if your bag is by you.
But yes all he has to say is “ I will mark that now”

Yeah I get it, but it just doesn't sound very quick in this case though

The OP says that during the time A's ball has come to rest and while player A is swapping clubs and not looking at B: "meanwhile" B plays his shot
So either B does naff all PSR/practice swings etc (maybe why he thins it) or the wedge in/putter out club swap took longer than the handful of seconds it should especially since another player is waiting to play, and according to OP Player 'A' fully intends to mark that ball under the belief he's protecting the field in a backstop situation (not that B knows this)
But since player A isn't doing a quick swap and isn't looking at player B & B doesn't know that A wants to mark it, B decided to take his shot (maybe to player B, A's ball isn't even a factor from his angle) & if it wasn't a mishit from B does it even hit A's ball!

Quite how A can be "perplexed at not getting an opportunity to mark" is beyond me, if 'A' thinks his ball is in the way and they are close enough to the green for backstopping to be in A's immediate thoughts to protect the field then get on the green and mark it, then swap clubs while B plays & marks his... or just talk to B
Maybe A is just 'perplexed' because B's ball ultimately got a good rub after a mishit that would otherwise finish further away and A's thoughts turned to backstopping/the injustice

Two sides and all that

 

[rulie]

Yeah I get it, but it just doesn't sound very quick in this case though

The OP says that during the time A's ball has come to rest and while player A is swapping clubs and not looking at B: "meanwhile" B plays his shot
So either B does naff all PSR/practice swings etc (maybe why he thins it) or the wedge in/putter out club swap took longer than the handful of seconds it should especially since another player is waiting to play, and according to OP Player 'A' fully intends to mark that ball under the belief he's protecting the field in a backstop situation (not that B knows this)
But since player A isn't doing a quick swap and isn't looking at player B & B doesn't know that A wants to mark it, B decided to take his shot (maybe to player B, A's ball isn't even a factor from his angle) & if it wasn't a mishit from B does it even hit A's ball!

Quite how A can be "perplexed at not getting an opportunity to mark" is beyond me, if 'A' thinks his ball is in the way and they are close enough to the green for backstopping to be in A's immediate thoughts to protect the field then get on the green and mark it, then swap clubs while B plays & marks his... or just talk to B
Maybe A is just 'perplexed' because B's ball ultimately got a good rub after a mishit that would otherwise finish further away and A's thoughts turned to backstopping/the injustice

Two sides and all that

Imo, if A has not made his intentions known to B, then there is no breach of the Rules with the facts in the original post.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah I get it, but it just doesn't sound very quick in this case though

The OP says that during the time A's ball has come to rest and while player A is swapping clubs and not looking at B: "meanwhile" B plays his shot
So either B does naff all PSR/practice swings etc (maybe why he thins it) or the wedge in/putter out club swap took longer than the handful of seconds it should especially since another player is waiting to play, and according to OP Player 'A' fully intends to mark that ball under the belief he's protecting the field in a backstop situation (not that B knows this)
But since player A isn't doing a quick swap and isn't looking at player B & B doesn't know that A wants to mark it, B decided to take his shot (maybe to player B, A's ball isn't even a factor from his angle) & if it wasn't a mishit from B does it even hit A's ball!

Quite how A can be "perplexed at not getting an opportunity to mark" is beyond me, if 'A' thinks his ball is in the way and they are close enough to the green for backstopping to be in A's immediate thoughts to protect the field then get on the green and mark it, then swap clubs while B plays & marks his... or just talk to B
Maybe A is just 'perplexed' because B's ball ultimately got a good rub after a mishit that would otherwise finish further away and A's thoughts turned to backstopping/the injustice

Two sides and all that

Jeez that’s a lot of As & Bs !
I agree if A wanted to mark he should have made that clear.
But under ready golf B has every right to play imo.
Suppose you had to be there.

 

[backwoodsman]

If I was player A, I'd play my shot, watch my ball come to rest, and then, if I thought the ball needed marking, I'd say so - pretty much there & then before I did anything else. After all, it's going to take me some few moments to get to the ball to do the marking - which would be plenty of time for someone else to play their shot. If I turned away, to replace a club in the bag & get another out, I'd not be surprised if the next player had played whilst I was doing it.

If I was player B, I'd be pretty much ready to play my shot as soon as the other players ball had come to rest. If someone thought the ball needed to be marked, they'd need to say so fairly promptly - else I'd be playing my shot. (I'd have already made my own judgement ...). If they turned away to change clubs etc, I'd not expect them to be surprised that I'd played whilst they did do.

I doubt I'm significantly different to most other players.

 

[incatrekker]

Some years ago whilst playing a club match I played onto a green from about 90 yds finishing short of the hole. My opponent from 70 yds then asked me to mark my ball and attend the flag. I was stunned and said no. He insisted it could be on his line so I attended the flag. Did he have the right to ask?

 

[backwoodsman]

Some years ago whilst playing a club match I played onto a green from about 90 yds finishing short of the hole. My opponent from 70 yds then asked me to mark my ball and attend the flag. I was stunned and said no. He insisted it could be on his line so I attended the flag. Did he have the right to ask?

Short answer - yes.
A player can ask at any time for a ball to be marked and lifted, if they think it will help someone else, or hinder themselves.
Likewise, they can ask at any time for the flag to be tended (forgetting covid that is). However, you do realise, dont you, that by asking, you're likely to have re-started the whole "The flag doesn't need ntending any more" argument ...

 

[DickInShorts]

Mickelson has had the flag attended by Bones when a distance off the green - but he is pretty good at the short game!

 

[clubchamp98]

Short answer - yes.
A player can ask at any time for a ball to be marked and lifted, if they think it will help someone else, or hinder themselves.
Likewise, they can ask at any time for the flag to be tended (forgetting covid that is). However, you do realise, dont you, that by asking, you're likely to have re-started the whole "The flag doesn't need ntending any more" argument ...

I do like the flag attended for a putt from distance.
But from 70yds I would think that might put me in danger if he thins one or I lose the flight of the ball.
Mark my ball yes!
But would you stand in front of someone hitting a golf ball in any other circumstance?

 

[clubchamp98]

Rather overdramatic ??

Spent a few days in hospital with concussion after being hit on the head by a ball .
Having brain scans and neurological tests isn’t very nice.
So I disagree.

 

[rulie]

There is no obligation in the Rules for a player to attend the flagstick for another player. If is ok to refuse.

 

[woofers]

So, in a 4 player Texas Scramble, the ball is played from the edge of the putting green. Each player putts close to the hole, but none are marked, the balls are left in place. An 8 shot penalty ?

 

[williamalex1]

So, in a 4 player Texas Scramble, the ball is played from the edge of the putting green. Each player putts close to the hole, but none are marked, the balls are left in place. An 8 shot penalty ?

Did anyone hit another ball on the green ?