19-5 - Ball in motion deflected or stopped by another ball

[woody69]

Rather foolishly received a 2 stroke penalty on our 18th today, whilst knocking a 50ft putt up towards the hole, I slightly mis-hit it and ended up striking a FCs ball that wasn't on the correct line, but was near the hole. I know I should have asked him to mark it, but it did get me wondering as to why such a rule exists.

If I am off the green and strike a ball that is on the green then he just replaces his close to the original spot as possible and I play mine where it lies with no penalty, so if it deflects off the ball at rest and goes in the hole, then great! I appreciate if I am on the green and deliberately aim my putt so my ball deflects off a ball at rest and goes in the hole then that would be a unfair, but couldn't the ruling be that when both balls are on the green then both balls must just be replaced and replayed from the original spot without penalty? What would be an argument against that? Even a 1 stroke penalty would be better. Just felt like a 2 stroke penalty was overly draconian so wondered what the argument is for it being so harsh especially in matchplay there is no penalty at all.

 

[Foxholer]

I believe it's to deter anyone from taking advantage of a situation - as are many of the 2SPs. Plenty of others that are hardly any 'benefit' at all - just moving a leaf on the back-swing in a bunker for example.

 

[Colin L]

Woody,
You say that your putt was mishit and hit an FC's ball that was off line. Why should you get a mulligan with the chance of holing it this time?

 

[woody69]

Woody,
You say that your putt was mishit and hit an FC's ball that was off line. Why should you get a mulligan with the chance of holing it this time?

True. I see what you are saying, which is why perhaps a replace with no penalty is perhaps a little too lenient... maybe a 1 stroke penalty would be "fairer". I just thought it was odd that it's 2SP for strokeplay, but in matchplay it's no penalty.

 

[Foxholer]

True. I see what you are saying, which is why perhaps a replace with no penalty is perhaps a little too lenient... maybe a 1 stroke penalty would be "fairer". I just thought it was odd that it's 2SP for strokeplay, but in matchplay it's no penalty.

Now that's a different situation. In Matchplay, your opponent 'has control' of his ball and if he chooses not to mark it, he's lumbered with that decision - entirely just!

 

[North Mimms]

50 foot putt?
You must have massive greens!

 

[woody69]

50 foot putt?
You must have massive greens!

Only a few and the pin position at the front in relation to my ball right at the back meant it was a 1 off unlikely scenario!

 

[North Mimms]

Only a few and the pin position at the front in relation to my ball right at the back meant it was a 1 off unlikely scenario!

Possibly explains why you mis-hit, what with having to use a 3 wood for the distance!

 

[atticusfinch]

This rule is referred to by richard tufts as one that is incurred by the player's play. His description of the principles behind penalties shuild be read in toto so I will repeat it here.

Nobody wants to incur a penalty but there are so many in the Rules that they are often a factor in the results of play.
Generally speaking there are four kinds of penalties. 1) Those which come as a result of play, such as a ball played out of bounds, the striking
of another ball in stroke play when both balls lay on the putting green prior to the stroke, etc. 2) Those which are a result of accidental acts of
the player, such as a ball moved in address. 3) Those which are the result of purposeful acts of the player, such as lifting a ball in play before holing
out, improving the lie of the ball, etc. It should be noted that even purposeful acts are usually inadvertent or done in ignorance of the Rules.
4) Those which come from a failure to proceed in accordance with the Rules, such as putting a ball in play incorrectly, delaying play, etc.

Fortunately in golf the deliberate violation of the Rules is a rare occurrence and it is an interesting demonstration of the high moral plane
on which the game is universally played that those who intentionally violate the Rules soon find it difficult to arrange matches. Since few
violations are of the deliberate sort, it is obvious that the word “penalty” is not used in the Rules in its sense of being punishment.
The word “adjustment” would be more appropriate and it is here that we arrive at the principle which applies to penalties. The penalty
must not be less than the advantage which the player could derive from the particular Rule violation. In other words, whether the
violation be inadvertent or deliberate, or whether it occurs as a result of play or be due to the accidental or purposeful act of the player, or whether it be brought about by failure to proceed in accordance with the Rules regardless of thecircumstances, the penalty must always be of sufficient magnitude to discourage the player from seeking or receiving advantage under the Rules.

The purpose of the Rules is to insure that as far as possible everyone plays the same game. The penalties serve to police the chance
that by taking advantage of an inadequately protected Rule players will play a game wholly different from golf. The penalties must be adequate
to provide this protection for if they are too light it is conceivable that golf would become a game of negotiation, with the golfer deliberately
accepting penalties in order to obtain some advantage. Thus the Rules themselves would provide the golfer with an inexpensive method of
avoiding the results of a badly played shot. Under these conditions golf would lose all character and become a travesty.

In order to maintain this principle, it must be admitted that at times the penalties appear to be unduly severe. It is impossible to provide a
completely graduated scale of penalties, though the Rules do permit modifying the penalty of disqualification [Rule 33-7], and the penalty
applied to each particular rule must be specific and adequate at least to match the maximum advantage which the player is likely to receive. The
penalties cannot be expected, nor are they intended to exactly offset the advantage gained from the violation.

As regards their severity, penalties can be divided into three general gradations: one stroke, two strokes in stroke play and its
equivalent of loss of hole in match play, and disqualification. It is interesting to examine each of these classifications in the light of the
principle that the penalty must not be less than the advantage gained.