Back pains caused by swing.
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
Yep, excessive exercise leads to injuries. Not rocket science.
Warm up properly. Swing at 80% of potential. 100% swings can lead injuries and to the ball disappearing into another county.
Warm up properly. Swing at 80% of potential. 100% swings can lead injuries and to the ball disappearing into another county.
Wolf
Well-known member
From my experience of working with lower back pain sufferers I'd day that's actually a pretty fair an accurate bit of research. The amount of pressure put on the lumbar spine whilst in flexion for swinging a club is significant so factor in the aggressive swings some the guys have this is definitely something that could happen more.
We're seeing a lot more natural fluid motions coming back now that aren't as wound up in guys coming through so maybe things will change a little.
We're seeing a lot more natural fluid motions coming back now that aren't as wound up in guys coming through so maybe things will change a little.
Grant85
Head Pro
There's plenty of guys been hitting the ball as hard as they can and making big turns and generating big speed for decades.
Greg Norman and John Daly - two champions of old who were big hitters and I don't see them exactly wheelchair bound.
I'd say - you give them todays equipment at age 25 and a couple of months with a trackman and they would be hitting it past plenty of todays top players.
If you have a big enough sample size, you will always have people who have back problems, knee problems, other conditions.
Tigers problems are more to do with his military style training and adding extra wear and tear on his body - not to mention his knee injury, which has probably led to other injuries.
Greg Norman and John Daly - two champions of old who were big hitters and I don't see them exactly wheelchair bound.
I'd say - you give them todays equipment at age 25 and a couple of months with a trackman and they would be hitting it past plenty of todays top players.
If you have a big enough sample size, you will always have people who have back problems, knee problems, other conditions.
Tigers problems are more to do with his military style training and adding extra wear and tear on his body - not to mention his knee injury, which has probably led to other injuries.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Most of us have xip core strength, sub 100mph swings, zero X factor, and will never have to worry about this.
Shock, amazeballs, elite athletes can injure themselves.
Shock, amazeballs, elite athletes can injure themselves.
Wolf
Well-known member
Different swing models and types though. Daly long and fluid and Norman's whilst aggressive his posture is different a little more upright so less tension whilst under flexion throughout his swing,. His swing was also more flowing whilst aggressive than Tigers swing was.
Not disagreeing that tiger doing excessive training didn't help but there are thousands in military guys that do similar training without the back issues.
It's not the turning itself that causes the issue or hitting it hard Nicklaus did both, its more the restrictive swing model the likes of Woods used at that time because of the tension he was actively trying to create causing extra problems and I belive that's what this article is trying to point out as a contributing factor.
Grant85
Head Pro
Agreed - but Woods was doing this training every few months, practising golf every morning, playing every afternoon, lifting weights in the evenings etc. Walking 90+ holes every week of a tournament.
I think the guys these days pro-actively have lighter schedules and have learned a lot in the past few years about how to peak for certain weeks of the year.
Hence why Rory manages his schedule very carefully.
Wolf
Well-known member
What would you have had him do as a professional golfer then, his job is to hit balls every day, to walk the 90+ holes each week and to be in the gym to ensure he is in physical peak condition.
None of that will have changed even now he just does less of it so seems an odd thing to point out as most of the guys will be doing exactly this, and using Rory as an example equally odd have you seen the shape he is in, considering he was a chubby kid he didn't just grow into that body he admits its hours of gym work.
Yes the all play slightly shorter schedules now but that won't change their prep or off course work.
Even with Tiger doing that training every few months it still is only a small contributing factor his golf game will always have caused more stress over a prolonged period, to assume he did all his injuries with his other training is a little naive, as I said it will have Contributed but not as much as being the only thing that caused it.
As for Rory schedule that's nothing to do with injury prevention he himself said he changed it to get more time wife his new wife and to play less around the majors to peak his game for those weeks that doesn't mens he isn't doing the practice or gym work he just playing less golf.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Interesting. For club golfers and in my experiences and opinion, it's important to stretch and really warm up before hitting balls, either at a range, pre-round or even before going onto the first tee. The golf swing has definitely changed from a Seve, Johnny Miller type of action with a big leg action in there but Seve in particular had all sorts of back issues which ultimately perhaps led to an early demise for his career. There is no doubt the modern swing places far more stress on the spine region as the article shows and I think we're only seeing the start of any long term health fall out with Woods as he was perhaps the pioneer of the modern powerful rotation or at least took it to a higher level. We'll have to wait and see what long term problems the likes of Rory, DJ etc have going forward once age and a long career catches up with them
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
As someone with along term back injury (from my teenage) years one of my physios about 10-15 years ago made me see a bit of sense.
Her view was that golf was in fact good for my injury as long as it was warm up properly, hit a ball, walk, hit the ball, walk etc. Her view was that it was the repetitive nature of range practice that did all the damage and I should severely limit any time on the range.
My range practice now gets limited to a maximum of 20 balls.
Her view was that golf was in fact good for my injury as long as it was warm up properly, hit a ball, walk, hit the ball, walk etc. Her view was that it was the repetitive nature of range practice that did all the damage and I should severely limit any time on the range.
My range practice now gets limited to a maximum of 20 balls.
Scozzy
Medal Winner
It's as much to do with wear and tear as anything surely?!? These guys are giving their backs a proper hiding over decades of high intensity,daily repetition so the body is bound to break down. Us once a week hackers have different issues with fitness and technique playing a far bigger role in injury but Tiger and a few of his pals may well struggle to walk in a decade
Grant85
Head Pro
I don't know this for sure, but I get the impression (from Hank Hainey's book) that Tiger had a very rigorous schedule about how much he did all day, every day.
My guess is that Tiger hit a LOT of balls and did a LOT of training and practice. Much more so than the top guys these days do. It's my view that this has been a factor in his injuries and lack of longevity, along with the military style training camps he did.
Also, although Tiger was dominant for a decade or more, I reckon if you start Tiger's career now (as in 1997 Tiger) and he plays in the current events with the current players, he would be nowhere near as dominant. The current players train smarter, eat smarter, manage schedules smarter. Tiger was just a juggernaut who obviously thought he was doing everything right because he was winning so much.
Grant85
Head Pro
Another point - I heard Bryson on the earn your edge podcast.
Now aside from this hour being a technical typhoon that isn't all that interesting to listen to, he made a great point. In his younger days, he was a good player but relied so much on timing. He found himself hitting thousand of balls a day to find and keep his timing.
He realised that this was not sustainable as he would never have the energy or time to play in tournaments or practice other aspect of his game. He found a better method that was more sustainable.
Now aside from this hour being a technical typhoon that isn't all that interesting to listen to, he made a great point. In his younger days, he was a good player but relied so much on timing. He found himself hitting thousand of balls a day to find and keep his timing.
He realised that this was not sustainable as he would never have the energy or time to play in tournaments or practice other aspect of his game. He found a better method that was more sustainable.
Roops
Head Pro
Interestingly players like Cameron Champ and Justin Thomas are not big guys. They are pretty slender and whack it a mile, so the obsession with generating distance through muscle building is interesting. I think there is a lot more to hitting it out of the middle of the club and generating speed through leverage. Faldo and Daren Clarke were stocky guys but not long in comparison with their peers.
I haven't seen any mention of muscle fibre types when training and distance is discussed. Pretty sure that Sprinters per se are endowed with fast twitch muscle fibres that allow for explosive power. On the other hand long distance runners are slow twitch and more suited to endurance. The sprinters respond better to muscle building routines, hence why most of them are big guys. Pretty sure this is the realm of the Long Drive guys and where some golfers reside. The other slender guys, don't have the muscle speed but do have good leverage and are able to accelerate the club with wide arcs and technique.
It looks like we are heading away from the resistance coil (a la Tiger) and to a more flowing move (Molinari). It' a fascinating subject, that I think we have really only scratched the surface of at the moment.
I haven't seen any mention of muscle fibre types when training and distance is discussed. Pretty sure that Sprinters per se are endowed with fast twitch muscle fibres that allow for explosive power. On the other hand long distance runners are slow twitch and more suited to endurance. The sprinters respond better to muscle building routines, hence why most of them are big guys. Pretty sure this is the realm of the Long Drive guys and where some golfers reside. The other slender guys, don't have the muscle speed but do have good leverage and are able to accelerate the club with wide arcs and technique.
It looks like we are heading away from the resistance coil (a la Tiger) and to a more flowing move (Molinari). It' a fascinating subject, that I think we have really only scratched the surface of at the moment.
Wolf
Well-known member
Haneys book is.hardlyba gospel worth listening to or taking as 100% accurate, in his book alone he acknowledges Tiger only had 20% fully working ACL when they began working together and that was before his so called SEAL training regimes.
So again with my background in the fitness Industry and time in the forces his main major factors were his amount of time prato song a swing that caused excessive forces on his lumbar spine spine than the occasional training foray with the military.
I agree if he was starting now he wouldn't be anywhere the dominant force however that raises a question in itself that the guys that are smarter and more informed now, would they be that wya without what Tiger brought to the game in the early 2000s after all he changed the golfing landscape paving the way for the guys now.
Grant85
Head Pro
No, Tiger definitely moved the philosophy with regards to the strength and conditioning training that we see as basically the prototype Tour Pro these days.
But the current guys have refined this again over the past decade. Look at Kopeka - guy has barely any tour wins but has peaked for 3 majors in 18 months.
Scozzy
Medal Winner
I wonder what Gary Player would say to you guys about who was the 1st player to show the benefits of fitness and conditioning........
Wolf
Well-known member
Gary Player would always argue he was the first because he loves the sound of his own voice. But he didn't change the scope of the game and change the views of the masses and others. Whilst he may have been the first so called golfing gym rat, the physiques on tour and changes to styles didn't change, once Tiger came about he did what Nicklaus before him had done and changed the face of golf and became the face of the game for the following generations.
Player was always competing in the Nicklaus era so his impact whilst there was one was minimal as Jack was the dominant force. Tiger however was both the dominant force and the specimen of physical dominance on tour so he really shifted the change in golf technique, trianing and skill.
Nowadays though all good players have decent strength and conditioning coaches that are taking Woods philosophy and developing it better for longevity
Scozzy
Medal Winner
Hehe love it! He is dreadful to listen to when he starts banging on, usually about himself! I suppose you could look at it like this,GP is still fit as s fiddle and capable of playing well at a grand old age where the great man himself will need to be a surgery enhanced cyborg hybrid human type thing to walk the course in his 80's as his era changing regime gets its revenge on his frame.
Long live the Beeeeeefff fitness plan I say!
Wolf
Well-known member
He is woeful and GP favourite subject is GP, wonder what he makes of the charges levied at his son 😂
But yes he is still fit and healthy unlike what Woods will be that's probably more through having to do it to keep up and having such instense travel schedules back in the day that he did do just enough rather than over do it like Woods and a much less stressful technique.
Lot to be said for the Beef method, look at Phil and Monty hardly physical specimens but very languid flowing styles will allow them to play with same swing for years
