Arn't joining fees making it harder for new members?

[Smiffy]

. Ignoring muni golf you can pay & play at Wellshurst. Just ask Smiffy ( it's not as bad as he says but....)

Oh but it is!!
It's cheap golf, but personally I would rather pay the extra and play somewhere like the Nevill, Piltdown, Crowborough, East Sussex National or Lamberhurst even if it meant getting out twice a month rather than four times.
Prior to playing there for the 1st time, I asked somebody what it was like. "It's like a mini East Sussex National" came the reply. Yeah right. After being carpet bombed by the Luftwaffe????

 

[SammmeBee]

So you have the right to tell a more occasional player what level of quality they can permitted to play?

It's called a green fee.......

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

It's called a green fee.......

Yes, but do you have the right to say what quality of course will satisfy me, golfwise. See Smiffy's post.

If you are advocating an 'every club should have a joining fee' stance, then you are barring huge swathes of potential golfers from ever taking the game up more seriously.

Yes, I can pay a green fee pretty much anywhere, but without a handicap I can't maintain even basic human rights- like go on a forum meet for example.

Inhumane I tell you......

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Oh but it is!!
It's cheap golf, but personally I would rather pay the extra and play somewhere like the Nevill, Piltdown, Crowborough, East Sussex National or Lamberhurst even if it meant getting out twice a month rather than four times.
Prior to playing there for the 1st time, I asked somebody what it was like. "It's like a mini East Sussex National" came the reply. Yeah right. After being carpet bombed by the Luftwaffe????

Ah, but have you played it since they turned it bum about breast?
They even cut the greens and everything nowadays.
All mod cons I tells ye,

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've seen many clubs starting to offer more flexible types of membership where you pay a fee, can get a handicap and play in comps, but have to simply pay reduced green fees as and when you want to play. Ideal for those with families or unable to commit to playing every week

I played at Kingswood the other week and they do a lifestyle membership http://golf.kingswood-golf.co.uk/news-events/ and if clubs can still get revenue with a more flexible range of schemes surely it negates the issue of having joining fees and sure,y making it easier for members to pay for just the golf they use will retain their membership

 

[Smiffy]

Ah, but have you played it since they turned it bum about breast?
They even cut the greens and everything nowadays.
All mod cons I tells ye,

Still wouldn't get me down there.
Goat track xxxxxx

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think there are driving clubs that you can join to get into otherwise unaffordable quality cars every now and then 😉
But we digress....
Round here West Sussex is as good a course as any but I wouldn't ever consider it because it has a joining fee.
East Sussex National is also a top place to play if you've got £1700 and can afford the time and money to get your value out of it.They do a flexible membership at similar rates - still out of my league.
Ignoring muni golf you can pay & play at Wellshurst. Just ask Smiffy ( it's not as bad as he says but....)
But in the middle there are clubs like Eastbourne Downs where you can play a few times a year for only £30 a month. Or Haywards Heath where £400 will get you 12-18 games a year.
As far as I'm aware these are both decent enough clubs, not absolutely top notch, but a whole lot better than Waterhall municipal.
I'm not saying I will be the biggest contributor to any club, but my few quid keeps the game affordable for me, and helps with the coffers at these mid quality courses.
10 part time members like me are worth more in the long run than a couple of elitist members paying £1k fee +£1k subs although the money in year one is exactly the same.
And for golf to flourish I think we should want as many of those part timers to start now, so that as time progresses and they can afford to upgrade, they won't be lost to the game in the future.
(An oversimplification of the maths, I know, but the principle works, I think)
Let me repeat. I'm not knocking West Sussex, but if all clubs were like that I'd never pick up a club again ('Ok, now I've set that up for someone...be gentle 😘)

So basically the better courses charge the most and have a joining fee

You want to be able to be a member of such clubs but can't justify spending that much money because you don't play enough so you want them to change their membership so that you can pay a smaller fee ?

Why should a club do that when they have people willing to pay what is needed to join ?

It seems you want to be affordable for you ? - well I'm sure there will be clubs that you can play at but its seem you want the best but not willing to pay the going rate

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

If you are advocating an 'every club should have a joining fee' stance, then you are barring huge swathes of potential golfers from ever taking the game up more seriously.

Yes, I can pay a green fee pretty much anywhere, but without a handicap I can't maintain even basic human rights- like go on a forum meet for example.

Inhumane I tell you......

OK, you mentioned earlier about simple analogies, here is one for you.........

2 private clubs in your area, neither has a joining fee and both have 500 members each paying £1000 a year. Club A has an issue of some description, lets say disease in the greens. The members get cheesed off and at the end of the year half of them decide to leave and join club B which is in much better condition. So now you have 250 members at club A and 750 members at club B. Club A needs lots of money to remedy the issue with the greens but doesn't have it as their income has been reduced by 50% and now club B is flourishing and getting better because their income has increased massively. So club A is now on a downward spiral and getting worse, more people want to leave and join club B but they are now full and have a waiting list. Club A could ultimately go bust and close leaving the remaining members with nowhere to play.

So is this making golf inclusive to all?

This analogy is extremely simplistic but if both clubs had joining fees the chances are few(er) people would have left club A in the first place and they would have been able to resolve the issues and get back on track, people would have had a choice where to play.

I have paid 2 joining fees in my time and I believe they are a protective mechanism to help clubs survive.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think there are driving clubs that you can join to get into otherwise unaffordable quality cars every now and then 😉
But we digress....
Round here West Sussex is as good a course as any but I wouldn't ever consider it because it has a joining fee.
East Sussex National is also a top place to play if you've got £1700 and can afford the time and money to get your value out of it.They do a flexible membership at similar rates - still out of my league.
Ignoring muni golf you can pay & play at Wellshurst. Just ask Smiffy ( it's not as bad as he says but....)
But in the middle there are clubs like Eastbourne Downs where you can play a few times a year for only £30 a month. Or Haywards Heath where £400 will get you 12-18 games a year.
As far as I'm aware these are both decent enough clubs, not absolutely top notch, but a whole lot better than Waterhall municipal.
I'm not saying I will be the biggest contributor to any club, but my few quid keeps the game affordable for me, and helps with the coffers at these mid quality courses.
10 part time members like me are worth more in the long run than a couple of elitist members paying £1k fee +£1k subs although the money in year one is exactly the same.
And for golf to flourish I think we should want as many of those part timers to start now, so that as time progresses and they can afford to upgrade, they won't be lost to the game in the future.
(An oversimplification of the maths, I know, but the principle works, I think)
Let me repeat. I'm not knocking West Sussex, but if all clubs were like that I'd never pick up a club again ('Ok, now I've set that up for someone...be gentle 😘)

Ultimately though it is nothing more than a consumer decision. There are lots of clubs locally that still charge a joining fee and still attract members and it's no different to deciding on a BMW or something cheaper and whether you want to pay more for a better car or in this case golf club or not. Joining fees aren't going away while clubs can charge them and get people through the doors

You simply have to look at the quality of a course, and the enjoyment it'll offer week in week out, look at how easy it is to integrate and play comps, the atmosphere etc and decide what you want from a club and then work out if you are getting value for money and join or not.

 

[guest100718]

OK, you mentioned earlier about simple analogies, here is one for you.........

2 private clubs in your area, neither has a joining fee and both have 500 members each paying £1000 a year. Club A has an issue of some description, lets say disease in the greens. The members get cheesed off and at the end of the year half of them decide to leave and join club B which is in much better condition. So now you have 250 members at club A and 750 members at club B. Club A needs lots of money to remedy the issue with the greens but doesn't have it as their income has been reduced by 50% and now club B is flourishing and getting better because their income has increased massively. So club A is now on a downward spiral and getting worse, more people want to leave and join club B but they are now full and have a waiting list. Club A could ultimately go bust and close leaving the remaining members with nowhere to play.

So is this making golf inclusive to all?

This analogy is extremely simplistic but if both clubs had joining fees the chances are few(er) people would have left club A in the first place and they would have been able to resolve the issues and get back on track, people would have had a choice where to play.

I have paid 2 joining fees in my time and I believe they are a protective mechanism to help clubs survive.

No they are are throw back to when joining the local GC was seen as a status symbol. When the time comes that your club drops joining fees will you move to somewhere that still has one?

 

[Snelly]

Round here West Sussex is as good a course as any but I wouldn't ever consider it because it has a joining fee.

I am not sure you are quite the right fit for the West Sussex either.

 

[Smiffy]

I am not sure you are quite the right fit for the West Sussex either.

Hope it's not that posh Snelly, I am playing there on Sunday

 

[Snelly]

No they are are throw back to when joining the local GC was seen as a status symbol. When the time comes that your club drops joining fees will you move to somewhere that still has one?

Why can't you just accept that some clubs are so desirable that people are happy to pay a joining fee? It doesn't affect you so why are you spouting vitriol about them? Your rantings won't make the slightest difference to anything.

 

[guest100718]

Why can't you just accept that some clubs are so desirable that people are happy to pay a joining fee? It doesn't affect you so why are you spouting vitriol about them? Your rantings won't make the slightest difference to anything.

Its a genusine question. Most clubs dont have a joining fee and yours like, D4Ss will go at some point. It will still be the same club I guess, but some of you seem to think that clubs with joining fees are somehow of a better standing than those without.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Its a genusine question. Most clubs dont have a joining fee and yours like, D4Ss will go at some point. It will still be the same club I guess, but some of you seem to think that clubs with joining fees are somehow of a better standing than those without.

I have read through the thread and cannot see where anybody has claimed that those charging a joining fee are superior to others. Merely, they have suggested that it might engender a greater level of commitment by members to what is, after all, their own organisation.

If, as a financial model, it works for some clubs then where is the problem. Equally, if in years to come it is no longer working then fees may be withdrawn.

As with so many things there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[richart]

Most clubs around me have joining fees. Some didn't have them five/ten years ago. We have re-introduced a joining fee, as the club is popular and the membership for 7 day members is full. As the club is a private members one, the extra money raised from joining fees goes back into the club, and reflects in the condition it is in and the clubhouse facilities.

Without the joining fees I imagine the club would have to increase the annual subs ro raise the same revenue, and provide the same facilities. Our annual fees are probably the lowest of clubs around, especially those the other side of the Hampshire/Surrey border.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

OK, you mentioned earlier about simple analogies, here is one for you.........

2 private clubs in your area, neither has a joining fee and both have 500 members each paying £1000 a year. Club A has an issue of some description, lets say disease in the greens. The members get cheesed off and at the end of the year half of them decide to leave and join club B which is in much better condition. So now you have 250 members at club A and 750 members at club B. Club A needs lots of money to remedy the issue with the greens but doesn't have it as their income has been reduced by 50% and now club B is flourishing and getting better because their income has increased massively. So club A is now on a downward spiral and getting worse, more people want to leave and join club B but they are now full and have a waiting list. Club A could ultimately go bust and close leaving the remaining members with nowhere to play.

So is this making golf inclusive to all?

This analogy is extremely simplistic but if both clubs had joining fees the chances are few(er) people would have left club A in the first place and they would have been able to resolve the issues and get back on track, people would have had a choice where to play.

I have paid 2 joining fees in my time and I believe they are a protective mechanism to help clubs survive.

Also, club B may think to themselves "wow, aren't we popular?" and decide that as so many people want to join they can now introduce a joining fee.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Its a genusine question. Most clubs dont have a joining fee and yours like, D4Ss will go at some point. It will still be the same club I guess, but some of you seem to think that clubs with joining fees are somehow of a better standing than those without.

Within 25 miles of me:-

All the average courses have no joining fees and charge £1000 a year green fees (including mine).

All the great courses - Wallasey (open qualifier), S and A (held 2 ryder cups), Formby (held major amateur champs), Hillside (open qualifier) and a few others tend to charge £1,100 - £1,300 a year green fees, but £2k plus joining fees.

The better courses are just.............better. You may agree not as a "club", but they are as a course.

 

[guest100718]

Within 25 miles of me:-

All the average courses have no joining fees and charge £1000 a year green fees (including mine).

All the great courses - Wallasey (open qualifier), S and A (held 2 ryder cups), Formby (held major amateur champs), Hillside (open qualifier) and a few others tend to charge £1,100 - £1,300 a year green fees, but £2k plus joining fees.

The better courses are just.............better. You may agree not as a "club", but they are as a course.

Yes same as round here and everywhere I think.

 

[DCB]

If a club uses it's joining fee properly it will be far easier to budget for major Capital Expenditure items that simply couldn't be easily funded using annual subscriptions. Look at the costs of ride on mowers, greens mowers, green irons and you'll soon eat into any budget you have if you are just operating on subscriptions only. Even contract hire costs can be exorbitant for the important items of plant that are needed to maintain a course as it should be.

Whilst a joining fee isn't universally popular, as can be seen in this thread, they do reap rewards for the clubs who do still have them.