Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
Don't feed the troll
Arn't joining fees making it harder for new members?
- Thread starter Sashisg
- Start date
bobmac
Major Champion
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Doubt all you want paddy but right now with have 44 on the list - 28 of them have paid a down payment of £200 which will come of their first years subscriptions and been given vouchers to play
All of them are looking to join as full members including joining fee
I know that sort information sort of blows your theory out of the window about it discouraging people but test it out for yourself and ask for an application form
hovis
Tour Winner
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Going back to my college days, there is an economic principal called the "law of Diminishing Marginal Utility"
without going into too much cranial detail, A Joining fee is basically there to stop people queueing.
Let me explain...
We all want "the Best", in an ideal world, we would all be able to be members of Swinley Forest, but reality is not like that
The golf clubs we choose to join will be chosen from a variety of criteria from Location, quality of course, Financials etc and there will be a definite pecking order, with many of us having to choose a "lower" club compared to our first choice money no object club.
Clubs at the top of the pecking order will be there for a reason, they will be popular and they will have a cap on the number of members they can cope with. In this instance a joining fee is entirely appropriate as it forms a barrier to joining and therefore reduces "queueing" on the waiting list. whilst increasing income without making the place overcrowded.
For those clubs further down the pecking order without a waiting list and a declining membership, a joining fee is entirely inappropriate. they are fighting for survival and want as many bodies through the gates as possible.
Then you have those clubs in the middle, maybe decent courses, but lacking that bit of investment, a bit old school with an ageing membership who hark after those halcyon days, clubs who think they are better than they actually are, clubs who are ticking over for the moment, but in 10/15 years when all the old members have either passed on or retired from the game will be up queer street sans paddle big time. The sort of club where the midweek seniors swindle is more popular than playing at the weekend
Its these clubs that worry me, they often still have joining fees which discourage more people from joining, they need to attract younger golfers and also those in the 30-45 age group as they are the immediate future committee members etc.
without going into too much cranial detail, A Joining fee is basically there to stop people queueing.
Let me explain...
We all want "the Best", in an ideal world, we would all be able to be members of Swinley Forest, but reality is not like that
The golf clubs we choose to join will be chosen from a variety of criteria from Location, quality of course, Financials etc and there will be a definite pecking order, with many of us having to choose a "lower" club compared to our first choice money no object club.
Clubs at the top of the pecking order will be there for a reason, they will be popular and they will have a cap on the number of members they can cope with. In this instance a joining fee is entirely appropriate as it forms a barrier to joining and therefore reduces "queueing" on the waiting list. whilst increasing income without making the place overcrowded.
For those clubs further down the pecking order without a waiting list and a declining membership, a joining fee is entirely inappropriate. they are fighting for survival and want as many bodies through the gates as possible.
Then you have those clubs in the middle, maybe decent courses, but lacking that bit of investment, a bit old school with an ageing membership who hark after those halcyon days, clubs who think they are better than they actually are, clubs who are ticking over for the moment, but in 10/15 years when all the old members have either passed on or retired from the game will be up queer street sans paddle big time. The sort of club where the midweek seniors swindle is more popular than playing at the weekend
Its these clubs that worry me, they often still have joining fees which discourage more people from joining, they need to attract younger golfers and also those in the 30-45 age group as they are the immediate future committee members etc.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Originionally the club owned it's premises and owned, or leased, the land.
There was therefore a value attached to membership - this wasn't limited to golf clubs.
Joining fees represented a way for new members to buy into the existing equity.
As most such institutions have become Ltd companies now such equity no longer exists - but there are the odd exceptions.
Generally speaking most of the various financial aspects of membership discussed in the thread had a solid basis when introduced originally - but have subsequently been added to the arsenal of charges available by those responsible for the financial proprietary of each club eg bar levies were introduced to guarantee a turnover level to maintain a particular level of staffing to provide catering and were seen as both more equitable, and a zero cost for many most members, than simply increasing the membership fees. Differential members catering prices followed, then subsequently found themselves in clubs that don't have bar levies! (Whilst logical for catering establishments that have golf they make no sense in golf clubs)
Add in the proliferation of membership pricing plans and the whole thing has become inherently unstable IMO. The actions of club A having a significant impact on B such that they instinctively react with offer C without any real comprehension of the medium term impact. Over the last 2 decades clubs have lost control of income and increasingly manage their financials through next year's spending budgets (which is why so many courses go through cycles in their condition).
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
Our club has membership cards, that you put money onto(no levy) and then you spend in the bar/shop/range and obtain IIRC 10% discount compared to if you don't put money on it. And they do a finest portion of chips we have found in Shrewsbury :thup:
Its great, as it means we can give Adam(son) the card when he is up there and he can buy stuff without carrying money etc as such or wondering if we have given him enough. We use the facilities etc ourselves etc.
I used to be in Essex, one of those golfers that used to play and go home, probably 90% of the time. Didn't wish to play in comps or socialised really(as my life was working 110 hours a week, so had no time and I am not a social person really, so why should someone be forced to, effectively I didn't wish to belong to a club but I wished to play golf
).
Thankfully in todays world there are different clubs for different folks, which once there almost was not.
Its great, as it means we can give Adam(son) the card when he is up there and he can buy stuff without carrying money etc as such or wondering if we have given him enough. We use the facilities etc ourselves etc.
I used to be in Essex, one of those golfers that used to play and go home, probably 90% of the time. Didn't wish to play in comps or socialised really(as my life was working 110 hours a week, so had no time and I am not a social person really, so why should someone be forced to, effectively I didn't wish to belong to a club but I wished to play golf
). Thankfully in todays world there are different clubs for different folks, which once there almost was not.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
I struggle with this, constantly referenced, argument because for the next couple of decades we will continue to increase the volume of active seniors available through increased health, longevity and various financial aspects already in play. ie for every passing senior there will be more potential replacements.
The real issue is purely and simply the number of 7 day members (weekend payers and players).
The increased number of nomads can realistically be expected to fuel senior membership in the near future, but are increasingly unlikely to take on 7 day membership as weekend access continues to open up at many venues outside of the treasured morning slots.
Where the whole model is threatened is in the rise of alternatives (time to mention cycling?) and the lack of introductory pressure. Whilst many ranges, and some clubs, do their best to make it cheap and easy to introduce youngsters to the game it's not enough - worldwide it's increasing but in the UK it's going backwards fast from everything I see.
The local course here has a £425 joining fee, one off payment then £489 a year, that seems pretty decent to me, there is a 16 months waiting list at the moment as well.
If you want to play a better course you've got to expect to pay a bit extra in my opinion.
If you want to play a better course you've got to expect to pay a bit extra in my opinion.
Is that Inverness?
If so that waiting list is well down, was 7 years when i first joined.
Totally agree with you there. Clubs are all scampering for younger members when we have an aging population.
I think clubs should be doing more to get older people involved. After all we have more time and on the whole can afford to play.
Paperboy
Mini Cam
Chris at Xmas you see all the people who don't use the bar come and buy £80 worth of wine to take home with them!!
At least at my club you do
It certainly is Patrick, seems pretty reasonable fees.
I think they must have dropped the joining fee as well, I've a funny feeling i paid more than that.
Was a bit of a waste, only stayed a member for a year. Where i like took me ages to get though town and it was always packed with 4 balls who wouldn't let you through.
It used to be a £1000 so has come down recently.
Only the choice of 2 in town and I think Inverness is kept in better condition.
Did ask to see if they would do a discount for offshore workers but Inverness and Torvean said they don't.
Only problem with both these is they are very wet in winter Inverness Esp, what with a Burn running though the low part of the course. was still wet when i last played it in June. Torvean is Ok and not that far behind Inverness TBH.
I would look at Fortrose, they were doing a good offer a couple of months ago and you get 12 months golf, though it is busy mornings, but afternoon its pretty quite, was thinking about it myself.
Nairn is always worth considering, but they still have a waiting list and Joining fee. takes me 20 mins door to door and i'm the back of Eden Court
My Dad is a member of Fortrose because like you say the Inverness courses aren't great in the winter.
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
Godot, to join?
JCW
Journeyman Pro
Not played in many days as cold as that day ..................EYG
