Are we deluded?

[Stub]

There is always a lot of discussion on here about different makes and models of bats with different forum members promoting their favourite sets of sticks, but are the different makes/models so different that the average/high handicap golfer notices any real benefit from one type over another?

I have all TM gear as that is what was recommended at a fitting but I suspect I could equally kit out with Ping, Callaway, Mizuno or any of the other leading makes and would play just the same as it is the numpty (me) holding the bat that dictates how well, or badly, it performs.

Are we really just victims of high profile sales/marketing campaigns - paid for by the prices we pay for the gear we are persuaded to buy? I accept bats have changed over a period but do they differ so much between various makers and from year to year?

 

[GreiginFife]

Stub, not sure if I'm deluded but I went to new bats (the ones in my sig) I saw improvements in my game.
After years of using Adams Idea A3's and going from 21 down to 16 I stalled there and wasn't improving further.
Now I could have been happy with that but decided maybe a change up was needed. Went and tried nearly every manufacturer out there and settled on the MP-52's as these felt best for me.
I have gone from 16 down to 12 and with the exception of taking time out last year due to injury and going backward a bit I'm still progressing.

 

[Hobbit]

If you ask a cross section of golfers a year after buying made to measure if their game had improved I'd guess a fair proportion would say no their handicap had stayed the same. But if they spent the same £500 on lessons I wonder what the end result would be?

Logically, if everyone could buy a game everyone would be breaking 80 within a short period of taking up the game.

So if people are getting fitted, and are still shooting the same scores what's the common denominator? Its the swing. So if changing the clubs doesn't work, why not change the swing? Get lessons seems to be the logical conclusion.

 

[Matty]

The manufacturers all spend on marketing because it works in generating sales. I guess there is a certain amount of competition in the advertising world to get your advert greater prominence and perhaps to a degree companies now have to spend to keep their market share from being eroded by other companies but....

I seriously wonder what impact it would have if they all stopped advertising. If you take smoking as the example - the tobacco companies are better off for the advertising ban as they don't need to spend on advertising and are still raking in the profits!!!

 

[One Planer]

I've noticed a major difference mainly in feel since moving from GI clubs to blades. Incidentally TM to Mizuno.

Where the R7's feel numb at impact, the MP32's off so much more feel and like butter out of the middle.

Will switching brands make me better, probaly not. Will switching club type, I'd like to think so, but time will tell.

 

[the_scrambler]

There is always a lot of discussion on here about different makes and models of bats with different forum members promoting their favourite sets of sticks, but are the different makes/models so different that the average/high handicap golfer notices any real benefit from one type over another?

I have all TM gear as that is what was recommended at a fitting but I suspect I could equally kit out with Ping, Callaway, Mizuno or any of the other leading makes and would play just the same as it is the numpty (me) holding the bat that dictates how well, or badly, it performs.

Are we really just victims of high profile sales/marketing campaigns - paid for by the prices we pay for the gear we are persuaded to buy? I accept bats have changed over a period but do they differ so much between various makers and from year to year?

Essentially, yes. At the end of the day, new bats won't change a faulty swing.

On second thoughts, perhaps there is one caveat I would insert and that would be in regard to (longterm health of) shafts but, don't quote me on that!

I do think it's fair to say the manufacturers are laughing at us. I mean, when they start to paint drivers white, you know they've run out of ideas!

 

[GreiginFife]

I mean, when they start to paint drivers white, you know they've run out of ideas!

In the words of Moma Boucher - "White Drivers are the DEVIL!!!!"

 

[the_scrambler]

GreginFife ... To give some context to my reply, (on another thread) I quoted Joyce Wethered as the golfer I'd most like to see on the telly. In 1930, she could hit her drives 240 yards. When you consider the type of equipment used back then, it's difficult not to come to any other conclusion than that the manufacturers of golf clubs are having a laugh at our expense.

 

[GreiginFife]

GreginFife ... To give some context to my reply, (on another thread) I quoted Joyce Wethered as the golfer I'd most like to see on the telly. In 1930, she could hit her drives 240 yards. When you consider the type of equipment used back then, it's difficult not to come to any other conclusion than that the manufacturers of golf clubs are having a laugh at our expense.

I don't disagree Scrambler, however that being said manufacturers of many products laugh at us. The cars we drive, the houses we buy, the products that we fill these houses with.
I was being light hearted, mainly due to having watched the Waterboy the other night

 

[Region3]

I changed my irons just before Christmas. Not because I thought they would make me play any better, but because I wanted to. They looked so nice I couldn't help myself.
There was a small playability reason behind it but not enough to justify changing clubs on it's own, in fact I'd guessed that they wouldn't be quite as easy to hit as my old ones.

I'm now playing better than I was when I changed, but I'd like to think that's down to me improving rather than any special powers bestowed upon me by new sticks.

The most important thing to me is that I'm not any worse with them, and I enjoy using them more.

 

[JustOne]

I changed my irons just before Christmas. Not because I thought they would make me play any better, but because I wanted to. They looked so nice I couldn't help myself.
There was a small playability reason behind it but not enough to justify changing clubs on it's own, in fact I'd guessed that they wouldn't be quite as easy to hit as my old ones.

I'm now playing better than I was when I changed,

I bought his old clubs and I'm playing as sh*te as ever..... must be the clubs

 

[Pro Zach]

As manufacturers make easier to use, more forgiving, better clubs, the average handicap remains about the same. I think this is a strong indication that they don't help.

 

[Crow]

I booked a series of 6 lessons for £99 this year.

Hopefully I'll see an improvement, and then I'll feel justified in buying a new set of irons.

 

[richart]

There is always a lot of discussion on here about different makes and models of bats with different forum members promoting their favourite sets of sticks, but are the different makes/models so different that the average/high handicap golfer notices any real benefit from one type over another?

I have all TM gear as that is what was recommended at a fitting but I suspect I could equally kit out with Ping, Callaway, Mizuno or any of the other leading makes and would play just the same as it is the numpty (me) holding the bat that dictates how well, or badly, it performs.

Are we really just victims of high profile sales/marketing campaigns - paid for by the prices we pay for the gear we are persuaded to buy? I accept bats have changed over a period but do they differ so much between various makers and from year to year?

I think Rickg is probably the most qualified to comment on this thread.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think if you put donw for aruments sake the R11, G15, JPX 800, Razr, Yonex Nanospeed, CG16 and AP1's in the same specs (say regular stock shaft) and conducted a blind test then I would hazard that there wouldn't be a huge difference. Some may go +/- 5-7 yards difference and each tester would have their favourite but I don't think in the hands of an average (24-12 handicapper) there would be something that performed so extraordinarily well that it would be a stand out winner.

I think if you repeated the test with better golfers (11 and down) and chucked in a set of Mizzy, TM MC's, Razr Tour, CG16 tour, AP2, I15's then the results would be similar. Possibly more deviance in distance and dispersion as the shaft would arguably play a greater role but on a general basis I doubt there would be one club that was voted singularly the best on test.

What would that prove. Well ultimately that if you are not preprared to go down the C/F route and lets be fair it doesn't appeal to a lot of people, and many including myself probably don't swing well enough regularly enough to benefit. In my case I'm tweaking the swing via lessons anyway so hpw would a C/F fitter get a realistic snapshot anyway (but that is another debate). So that leaves looks and feel alone. A lot of the clubs in the first batch are classed as GI and all would have chunkier top lines than those in the second set. Batch 2 would also have slightly smaller heads.

In the end it is about what feels right in your hands and which you hit best. However this is where the marketing whether sub-conscious or not. How many would reject the Yonex because it wasn't a fashionalbe name. Similarly how many have actually considered the Cleveland CG16 which immediately lures you back to the main protaganists and whether you like it or not that comes down to the adverts you see, and the influence of top players, demo days and all the other marketing devices on offer.

With the better players, and I'm using this as a very unscientific starting point, I'm guessing that whilst they may have their own favourites, it would be more a case of the best performing club, particularly if there were other shaft options available not necessarily as part of an out and out fit. There woudl seem to be more emphasis put on feel and control and that may lead to less brand loyalty.

All of this of course if hypothesis and I'm sure many of you will think total bunkum. However I do think that in the GI category in particular a lot of the brands are closely matched in terms of specs that htere has to other influences at work when we decide.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The golfing mentality is very fragile, I firmly believe confidence is everything. Pick up two identical spec clubs and chances are you will hit better shots with the one that suits your eye better.

Custom fit definitely helps if you are good enough to swing consistently every time.

 

[Dave B]

Whenever I visit my family in the North East I use an old set of Hippo AGC irons and MacGreggor Steel Head, steel shafted fairways.

These clubs are over 10 yrs old and I paid £10 each for the MacGreggors when they were in a super clearance by American Golf. Every time I hit these woods I wonder how much technology has really moved. I hit the 3 wood 220 yds, the 5 wood 200 yds and 7 wood 180 yds. With all the VFT face technology and shaft technology introduced in the last 10 years you would think that I'd get a substantial increase in performance.

Being truthfull I get about an extra 10 yds which works out at 1 yd per year.

Looking at Drivers I've just been fitted and bought a Callaway Razr Fit. I don't use the face adjustment however the Aldila NV RIP shaft combined with the 10.5 degree face keep the flight on the same trajectory of my Nike Vr Pro 9.5 degree driver but with a much lower spin rate with the bonus that becuase I am using a higher loft club it is more forgiving on miss hits and is much straighter due to the reduced spin.

I have gained slightly in terms of carry but it's difficult to judge by how much due to the wet fairways and long grass affecting many courses at the moment. I paid £329 for the driver which is the most I've paid for any club or set of irons. It is the best driver i've owned and because I was fitted for it I have the certainty that it is the best club for my game which adds to confidence and the mental side of the game however if the truth is known is it really that much better than the FT3 which was callaways first composite crowned driver.

It is straighter and longer however in 5 or so years the technology hasn't moved on as much as the manufacturers would have us believe.

I don't believe that any brand is better than another however I also don't believe that you should limit yourself to one brand especially if the price is right and the club does the job

 

[duncan mackie]

I think if you put donw for aruments sake the R11, G15, JPX 800, Razr, Yonex Nanospeed, CG16 and AP...........................etc

agree it all

the key point is that manufacturers are playing on our ability to believe we can find a magic solution...

 

[HughJars]

agree it all

the key point is that manufacturers are playing on our ability to believe we can find a magic solution...

Disagree entirely with Homer's conclusions.

Will a new set magically transform a 20 handicapper into a 10? No of course not, but getting the right head can make a massive difference, and the right shaft a smaller difference depending how good the player is, the lower the h'cap the more the shaft comes into play.

And it's different from player to player. For instance I think Taylormade irons are abysmal, yet some players hit them out of the park in comparison to others.

As for 'give a player 6 different irons and he'll hit them all the same', take it from someone who sees it every day, there is usually a stand out winner, or at least the field will be narrowed down to a couple of choices; certainly there will be stand out losers, it is very rare indeed for anyone to hit similarly with a variety of heads, in fact the only category who probably do, are outright duffers/beginners, which is why custom fitting for them is generally a total waste of everyone's time.

 

[HughJars]

but on a general basis I doubt there would be one club that was voted singularly the best on test.

What would that prove.

It fully proves the case for custome fitting. What suits one player may not suit another, hence why you have to go and try a load of different heads to see what works for you.

I changed clubs this year from Mizuno, thought I'd never change from being a Mizzie fanboy, but the only head that I felt in any way confortable with, and didn;t lose me considerable distnce was the MP53. Conversly, the best three irons were the Callaway Black, and Ping G & I 20s, both manufacturers I've never really had any affinity for in their irons.

It was a close thing, the Black's the longest club, but ultimately the dispersion of the I20s meant it was a no brainer for me. I'd also considered the AP2s, having owned Titleists in the past, I hit them horribly, conversly a colleague of mine has already dropped from 8 to 6 this year with a full new bag of Titleists.

Horses for courses, but if you just pick the shiiniest set off the shelf, and don't book a fitting session, you're missing out.