Are we ALL Racist?

[Deleted member 1418]

A very interesting and thought provoking thread.

Would I class myself as racist (and taking it a step further, homophobic) - no, as I have friends from all different ethnic backgrounds, and also friends who are gay.

However I will openly admit that I have come across people - white, black, asian, oriental, gay - who I absolutely cannot stand as individuals and who I would never form friendships with. So based on that some people would think of me as being racist.

But I judge people by who they are (i.e. character, nature etc) rather than the colour of their skin or who they are attracted to.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Children are born colour blind. It is adults that make them see colour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Racism to me is just a sub-set of being judgmental.......ie basing your view of someone on external characteristics rather than actually getting to know them. We all do this IMO, some more than others, but we all do it. We don't have time to "get to know" everyone we meet or interact with so we naturally make assumptions based on past experience. As racial characteristics (skin colour, accent etc) are pretty high up the "obvious" things we first pick up on then it's something people use to base their initial judgement on. It can just as easily be age or appearance.......we are surprised when a spikey haired punk rocker turns out to be intelligent and well spoken .....we are surprised when grey haired pensioner whips out an i-pad on the bus......we are surprised when football shirted golfer turns out to be off single figures (obviously this is an extreme example but you get my drift ). All the same thing and perfectly natural human behaviour. It only becomes a problem when you let it affect your subsequent treatment of people.

Excellent post and sums up my feelings

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Racism to me is just a sub-set of being judgmental.......ie basing your view of someone on external characteristics rather than actually getting to know them. We all do this IMO, some more than others, but we all do it. We don't have time to "get to know" everyone we meet or interact with so we naturally make assumptions based on past experience. As racial characteristics (skin colour, accent etc) are pretty high up the "obvious" things we first pick up on then it's something people use to base their initial judgement on. It can just as easily be age or appearance.......we are surprised when a spikey haired punk rocker turns out to be intelligent and well spoken .....we are surprised when grey haired pensioner whips out an i-pad on the bus......we are surprised when football shirted golfer turns out to be off single figures (obviously this is an extreme example but you get my drift ). All the same thing and perfectly natural human behaviour. It only becomes a problem when you let it affect your subsequent treatment of people.

...or if and how you choose to express your thought. I think that many politicians are frightened to admit that they too have these thoughts - and this leads to the contorted 'newspeak' that makes many politicians seem different from the rest of us - not damaging for the majority - but for the minority that apparent 'difference' turns into the 'they don't understand us'.

And then you get UKIP coming along speaking the thoughts but trying very hard not to form the thoughts into anything more than that - and of course for the minority these words legitimise their own thoughts - and we get votes cast as we just have.

 

[woody69]

it must be a long way down from that mighty pedestal that you sit on. I defy anyone to say that they have never looked at someone and judged them by their race or country of origin. It does not make you racist, it makes you human, it is not expressing those views or acting upon them that is the difference. It is only the same as other thoughts that we have like "if he does that again I'll kill him", it does not make you a murderer.

Everyone at some point has looked at someone and thought about them in discriminative way, it does not mean you are going to wear a big white bed sheet and start burning crosses.

Because I don't look at an individual and make an automatic judgement on their character based on the colour of their skin, or country of origin you think I'm somehow judging myself to be better than others? You can defy all you like, but I can say 100% I do not and will not ever judge someone on appearance alone and I certainly don't apply those feelings against that one person to every other person I meet that has the same appearance and characteristics.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I can say 100% I do not and will not ever judge someone on appearance alone and I certainly don't apply those feelings against that one person to every other person I meet that has the same appearance and characteristics.

I am not suggesting that you do - but my OP contention (and the topic of the DT article linked to from a previous post) is that we all have thoughts pop into our head that most of us instantly dismiss and most certainly don't voice or act upon. But instinct, background and the basic human need to make a instant judgement about something 'different' we are presented with give rise to such thoughts. Admitting that we have such thoughts is admitting we are human.

 

[MadAdey]

I will put a little thing out here for anyone that says they have never had a racist thought. Have you ever said.......

Typical Germans, nicking all the sun beds........

typical south american footballer, diving all the time.......

typical all dirty italian footballer.........

ever called a Welshman Taff, a Scotsmen Jock.

ever referred to a southerner as a shandy drinking puff

i could go on, but because you are not referring to someone's colour then it seems to be accepted. But I tell you what, if you said something like in your workplace and someone took offence to it then you would be up to your neck in it.

 

[G1BB0]

I would say we all have certain viewpoints or preconceived perceptions whether its about race/sexual orientation/socio-economic status and so forth. If we all felt and acted exactly the same we would be robots! The fact is we may all have thoughts now and again but we generally know how to act and behave and ignore them or keep them to ourselves.

its a bit like me being a Northerner living in the sarf with larger than normal ears , I get ripped all the time and do the same back to the shandy swillers and if they are ginger I may throw that in aswell. Its knowing when and where opinions or banter/jokes can be used and when to keep your gob shut and opinions to yourself that defines us imho

 

[SaintHacker]

I had to do some diversity training for work a few years ago. Race is just one thread of many that make up the whole diversity 'umbrella'. The conclusion of the course was that everybody has a predjudice of some kind, and anyone who says they don't is a liar. Its how you act on that prejudice that matters. Most balance people can happily keep theirs to themselves, the problems arise with those who can't and then act on that predjudice.

 

[Val]

I would say we all have certain viewpoints or preconceived perceptions whether its about race/sexual orientation/socio-economic status and so forth. If we all felt and acted exactly the same we would be robots! The fact is we may all have thoughts now and again but we generally know how to act and behave and ignore them or keep them to ourselves.

its a bit like me being a Northerner living in the sarf with larger than normal ears , I get ripped all the time and do the same back to the shandy swillers and if they are ginger I may throw that in aswell. Its knowing when and where opinions or banter/jokes can be used and when to keep your gob shut and opinions to yourself that defines us imho

Good post.

Casual racism seems to be accepted except when it's questioned from the direction it got fired from.

Racism is in the eye of the receiver, like it or not. I find being called a jock by strangers offensive and deemed it racist and it was ridiculed by a few on this forum which was shocking.

Racism ain't light hearted and it's certainly no joke.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Good post.

Casual racism seems to be accepted except when it's questioned from the direction it got fired from.

Racism is in the eye of the receiver, like it or not. I find being called a jock by strangers offensive and deemed it racist and it was ridiculed by a few on this forum which was shocking.

Racism ain't light hearted and it's certainly no joke.

I find this interesting because it clearly all comes down to the individual. I have never taken offence at someone calling me a jock, I have even looked on it as a term of endearment. But I can understand why people would take offence.

I wonder how many 'rascist' people on here would get upset if they couldn't get a decent indian, chinese or kebab takeaway on a Friday night?

 

[woody69]

Good post.

Casual racism seems to be accepted except when it's questioned from the direction it got fired from.

Racism is in the eye of the receiver, like it or not. I find being called a jock by strangers offensive and deemed it racist and it was ridiculed by a few on this forum which was shocking.

Racism ain't light hearted and it's certainly no joke.

Out of interest why do you believe being a called a "jock" is racist? Being Scottish is an nationality and the word Jock reflects regionalism, rather than racism. Of course you have every right to take offence at someone calling you a jock (particularly the manner in which it is said to you), after all some look at the word Jock as a term of affection and some have it as a badge of honour (Black Watch - Highland Regiment)

 

[woody69]

I will put a little thing out here for anyone that says they have never had a racist thought. Have you ever said.......

Typical Germans, nicking all the sun beds........

typical south american footballer, diving all the time.......

typical all dirty italian footballer.........

ever called a Welshman Taff, a Scotsmen Jock.

ever referred to a southerner as a shandy drinking puff

i could go on, but because you are not referring to someone's colour then it seems to be accepted. But I tell you what, if you said something like in your workplace and someone took offence to it then you would be up to your neck in it.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. None of those statements are "racist". Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. Just because you are playing up to the stereotype of a nationality doesn't mean you are automatically inferring you are in some way superior to them.

 

[London mike 61]

No, we are not ALL racist. I never have thoughts that judge a person based on the colour of their skin or their race. I may think they are a filthy individual, have poor manners, are rude, smell, a bad driver, a lazy worker, a scrounger etc etc but I'm not thinking that because they are a different race and I don't think that because they are like that, everyone of the same race/creed/caste is the same.

I agree with this, very well put.

 

[drawboy]

Light hearted Friday question....I'm staying well clear of this one. My thoughts are my own. I share them with people I feel comfortable with not total strangers on the internet.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Out of interest why do you believe being a called a "jock" is racist? Being Scottish is an nationality and the word Jock reflects regionalism, rather than racism. Of course you have every right to take offence at someone calling you a jock (particularly the manner in which it is said to you), after all some look at the word Jock as a term of affection and some have it as a badge of honour (Black Watch - Highland Regiment)

Yes, my dad was proud to be called a Jock and even more proud to be called Poison Dwarfs by the German troops when they crossed the Rhine and freed the concentration camp prisoners.
He would also probably be pleased to be called a gay chap, but that was in 1944/45.

Unfortunately the name has changed over the years and many now see the American version of being called a Jock as a tough sportsman with little between his ears

 

[Papas1982]

Yes, my dad was proud to be called a Jock and even more proud to be called Poison Dwarfs by the German troops when they crossed the Rhine and freed the concentration camp prisoners.
He would also probably be pleased to be called a gay chap, but that was in 1944/45.

Unfortunately the name has changed over the years and many now see the American version of being called a Jock as a tough sportsman with little between his ears

Just coming at it from another angle, had a typical pub convo the other day.

Is it just us, or have people noticed that if someone say's they're English, you'll generally find people correcting you as British, yet they're not so quick to do so when people say they're scottish or welsh?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just coming at it from another angle, had a typical pub convo the other day.

Is it just us, or have people noticed that if someone say's they're English, you'll generally find people correcting you as British, yet they're not so quick to do so when people say they're scottish or welsh?

Very much the other way around as England still play the British national anthem for sports events involving England and it was only a few years ago that Wembly or Twickers would be a sea of Union Jacks.

 

[MadAdey]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. None of those statements are "racist". Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities. Just because you are playing up to the stereotype of a nationality doesn't mean you are automatically inferring you are in some way superior to them.

Before I make this I want to get one thing clear, I am not racist and neither do I agree with or support people that discriminate against people, just purely on gender, race, religion, looks nationality etc etc. My brother is with a girl from Belize, my nephew is marrying a black South African, one of my best mates in the RAF that I joined up with is Indian.

But do you not think that making comments about someone due to their nationality is not being racist? By saying that all Germans steel all the sun beds because that is what Germans do to me is steropeotyping as you once saw one do it. I have watched films like boyz in the hood, but I do not believe that all black people are drug dealing criminals. To me it is irrelevant what you are talking about. If you pass comment on someone using a form of stereo typing, to me you are being discriminative against them.

To me you can't decide yourself what is being deemed as racist, just because you think it is ok it does not mean it is. Like has already been said by Martin, he sees being called Jock a derogatory term, where as someone else doesn't.

 

[Papas1982]

Very much the other way around as England still play the British national anthem for sports events involving England and it was only a few years ago that Wembly or Twickers would be a sea of Union Jacks.

Yeah but that kinda proves my pointX the public don't choose to play that anthem, and the flags will be what are sol for given to them. I myself consider myself English, yet when I say that. They'll usually be more than one person saying that's wrong.