One Planer
Global Moderator
Doesn't Foleys teaching advocate a fade as opposed to the draw in S&T?
Any stack and tilt coaches in Scotland?
- Thread starter Deke
- Start date
Doesn't Foleys teaching advocate a fade as opposed to the draw in S&T?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Sean Foley is not a Stack and Tilt Coach!
Though there are certainly similarities/overlaps!
http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/difference-between-foley-stack-tilt-golf-swing-1400.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-09/photos-stack-tilt-sean-foley
bill_macd
Newbie
There is a stack and tilt coach at the Forbes of Kingennie golf club near Dundee, I had 3 lessons (group) with him although he never mentioned Stack & Tilt, it was very impressive how he managed to get everyone hitting the ball, I just thought he was a great teacher, when I approached him after the lessons he explained about how stack & tilt had helped him to become a better player and coach, all our group agreed that whatever it was called it helped us play better golf, if you are looking to play better or learn stack and tilt (same thing) visit Ron Tickle at the Forbes of Kingennie golf club, I highly recommend him and it (stack & tilt).
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
You do realise this thread is over 3 years old don't you?
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
3yrs old?... it's just getting started then 
williamalex1
Money List Winner
I was just about to say welcome back Deke where's the cat, 2012 time flies .
Alan Hockey
New member
Had a lesson, was superb!
bobmac
Major Champion
How does it work with the driver?
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Not heard anyone talk of S&T in years and there is a reason for that I would suggest!
Alan Hockey
New member
Draw instead of slice and 30 yards more!
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
I'd love to learn how to do it for irons.
bobmac
Major Champion
So you've changed your swing path?
My concern is you have too much weight on the outside of your front foot. Not too much problom for your short irons but not ideal for the longer clubs unless you get your ball position well forward.
Unless of course S&T has changed over recent years
Alan Hockey
New member
No, it's all to do with the spine movement, great for all clubs
Alan Hockey
New member
Are you in London? Be ausethere is a good coach there
virtuocity
Tour Winner
***Long reply warning***
I started learning golf in 2012. Being scientifically minded, I always liked the idea of Stack and Tilt. It seemed like a 'system-based' approach to learning this game would save me a load of stress and a logical way of approaching a game everyone said would be hard. That's why S&T was a good fit.
I got a lot of good advice on here from Justone, and had my first few lessons with a qualified S&T instructor in Edinburgh. I was on my way. Long story short, like many predicted, I had lots of success (beyond what I expected) with my short irons and struggled with my long irons. Ultimately, I was rubbish at S&T and failed to systematically follow the programme. My main fault was not taking nearly enough videos of myself, and not practicing with purpose. At this time I was running my own business and had tonnes of time on my hands. I went through on average 400 range balls a week and two rounds of golf on top.
I got my first handicap and it came tumbling down. Most of this was due to my hand-eye coordination developing so my ball striking improved. I got the ball moving forward and my putting improved. Down to 18 easy. I started to move away from S&T mainly due to my desire to improve and the fact that there were no S&T instructors close to me. I then went through a few years of going for lessons sporadically with a number of pros, and not really investing my time in trusting what they were saying and not committing to practicing drills. Cue me watching 1M youtube videos for inspiration. I did then develop something of a swing by trial and error. Got down to 12. Then got a proper job and found that I had no reliable swing that I could pull out every year.
My overswing got worse again (S&T swings are really short) and then as a means of addressing the 'fault' of sucking the club inside on the takeaway, I began taking the club on the outside. More lessons, more confusion. All over the place. Huge over the tops, but with a strong grip resulted in quick lefts and huge pulls with nearly every club. 2018 was a nightmare and I decided enough was enough.
In 2019, I went back to basics with a pro who had a camera and a brain. He wanted to tidy up my swing and he is heavily invested on teaching me what he knows, and how to do it. He simplified everything:
1. The takeaway starts with the shoulder, and then there's a cock of the wrist
2. The club needs to shallow before swinging at the ball
3 Hit the frigging ball
There were a few errors along the way including alignment (was aiming a mile right) and continued to fight the overswing throughout the whole year. I did stop the rot (I was shooting 95-110 during 2018). I also had some very good rounds (happily brought the A game to Forest Pines).
Into this year, I've taken my simple learning from last year and added in one further thought- keep the left arm straight (it will bend, but not crumple). The result? 43 points and 42 points off of 3/4 handicap over the past couple of weeks. Feeling better about my game than I ever have. Lets see if it lasts.
TLDR:
So- what have I learned about S&T? It's a brilliant system if you have access to the teaching necessary and commitment to practicing with purpose, using video constantly, and have a knowledge of how to follow the system to the letter. I don't. I am certain it encourages an in-to-out path if done right. Problem was, as a novice, while I felt I was doing it right, I clearly wasn't. I was still too long in the backswing, and swinging over the top to recover.
If you watch my swing now, you'll still see elements of S&T- it's deeply ingrained. If I'm not careful, I suck the club inside with my hands rather than using a 'one piece takeaway'. I don't get off my left side, so have to work hard on set up, particularly with driver. I need to work hard to shallow the club as my head has a nasty habit of getting ahead of the ball and my swing used to get very steep (I put my back out twice in 2018/19 season). What I don't do is wildly sway off the ball like the common slicer. I do have a better understanding of golf swing theory (how much use this is I don't know) and due to the 1000s of balls I've hit in pursuit of a good S&T swing, I can hit the ball from any crap backswing position. Put me in a good position at the top and I can knob the ball around the course ok.
So- if you embrace S&T good for you. But embrace it fully. I really dislike how closed a system this is (like a secret club) and equally the eagerness of those who criticise it. I wouldn't go back to it, for the reasons I stated above. Again, sorry for the long post.
I started learning golf in 2012. Being scientifically minded, I always liked the idea of Stack and Tilt. It seemed like a 'system-based' approach to learning this game would save me a load of stress and a logical way of approaching a game everyone said would be hard. That's why S&T was a good fit.
I got a lot of good advice on here from Justone, and had my first few lessons with a qualified S&T instructor in Edinburgh. I was on my way. Long story short, like many predicted, I had lots of success (beyond what I expected) with my short irons and struggled with my long irons. Ultimately, I was rubbish at S&T and failed to systematically follow the programme. My main fault was not taking nearly enough videos of myself, and not practicing with purpose. At this time I was running my own business and had tonnes of time on my hands. I went through on average 400 range balls a week and two rounds of golf on top.
I got my first handicap and it came tumbling down. Most of this was due to my hand-eye coordination developing so my ball striking improved. I got the ball moving forward and my putting improved. Down to 18 easy. I started to move away from S&T mainly due to my desire to improve and the fact that there were no S&T instructors close to me. I then went through a few years of going for lessons sporadically with a number of pros, and not really investing my time in trusting what they were saying and not committing to practicing drills. Cue me watching 1M youtube videos for inspiration. I did then develop something of a swing by trial and error. Got down to 12. Then got a proper job and found that I had no reliable swing that I could pull out every year.
My overswing got worse again (S&T swings are really short) and then as a means of addressing the 'fault' of sucking the club inside on the takeaway, I began taking the club on the outside. More lessons, more confusion. All over the place. Huge over the tops, but with a strong grip resulted in quick lefts and huge pulls with nearly every club. 2018 was a nightmare and I decided enough was enough.
In 2019, I went back to basics with a pro who had a camera and a brain. He wanted to tidy up my swing and he is heavily invested on teaching me what he knows, and how to do it. He simplified everything:
1. The takeaway starts with the shoulder, and then there's a cock of the wrist
2. The club needs to shallow before swinging at the ball
3 Hit the frigging ball
There were a few errors along the way including alignment (was aiming a mile right) and continued to fight the overswing throughout the whole year. I did stop the rot (I was shooting 95-110 during 2018). I also had some very good rounds (happily brought the A game to Forest Pines).
Into this year, I've taken my simple learning from last year and added in one further thought- keep the left arm straight (it will bend, but not crumple). The result? 43 points and 42 points off of 3/4 handicap over the past couple of weeks. Feeling better about my game than I ever have. Lets see if it lasts.
TLDR:
So- what have I learned about S&T? It's a brilliant system if you have access to the teaching necessary and commitment to practicing with purpose, using video constantly, and have a knowledge of how to follow the system to the letter. I don't. I am certain it encourages an in-to-out path if done right. Problem was, as a novice, while I felt I was doing it right, I clearly wasn't. I was still too long in the backswing, and swinging over the top to recover.
If you watch my swing now, you'll still see elements of S&T- it's deeply ingrained. If I'm not careful, I suck the club inside with my hands rather than using a 'one piece takeaway'. I don't get off my left side, so have to work hard on set up, particularly with driver. I need to work hard to shallow the club as my head has a nasty habit of getting ahead of the ball and my swing used to get very steep (I put my back out twice in 2018/19 season). What I don't do is wildly sway off the ball like the common slicer. I do have a better understanding of golf swing theory (how much use this is I don't know) and due to the 1000s of balls I've hit in pursuit of a good S&T swing, I can hit the ball from any crap backswing position. Put me in a good position at the top and I can knob the ball around the course ok.
So- if you embrace S&T good for you. But embrace it fully. I really dislike how closed a system this is (like a secret club) and equally the eagerness of those who criticise it. I wouldn't go back to it, for the reasons I stated above. Again, sorry for the long post.
AMcC
Journeyman Pro
Really interesting post and I am sure many of us can relate to the story, in particular not trusting the pro enough and properly committing to a practice regimen. As a matter of interest which pro did you go to ?
virtuocity
Tour Winner
I went to Neil Colquhoun at Merchants in Edinburgh. Great coach for S&T and fully trustworthy. Even he was critical of some elements of S&T. He was just too far away from me.
Went to another coach (I won’t name). Tried to get me to fan the club open on the backswing and close it using my hands on downswing. Disaster.
There were probably another 3 or 4 coaches who told me ‘your backswing is too long- feel like you’re only making half swings’. Ineffectual.
YouTube videos- waste of time. Buying new gear- fun, but waste of time.
Went to Ross Aitken last year, lesson every 6 weeks. Winner. He not only showed me what to do, he made sure I knew how to be sure I was progressing and I knew after a bad shot what caused it. He patiently sorted out 6 years of bad habits.
This year is the acid test- I’m going to have quarterly lessons to check in. Signs from this year are beyond promising. I’m playing on a shortened course but off 3/4 handicap and shot 5 over gross last weekend. If I maintain this progress I should be knocking a few shots off my handicap on the full course. We’ll see.
virtuocity
Tour Winner
Also remember getting a voucher for a golf lesson at Turnberry while in my OTT smother pull phase. Young assistant pga pro looked at my ball flight (low left, going left). He then said I was swinging too far from the inside(!), got me to take the club on the outside and I spent the remainder of the lesson hitting shanks on to the Robert the Bruce course. He then asked if I wanted a special deal for 6 lessons at £185. Nah, you’re alright.
Edit: this is a young lad who would have been better learning and teaching stack and tilt. S&T at least has an understanding of ball flight laws.
Edit: this is a young lad who would have been better learning and teaching stack and tilt. S&T at least has an understanding of ball flight laws.
AMcC
Journeyman Pro
I wondered if it was Ross, great guy and and a fabulous coach. that is who i have been going to as well. He just needs a PA to sort his diary for him, I am sure you know what I mean. How are you enjoying Loudoun ? I played there through the eighties and early nineties and still have many good friends there.
Alan Hockey
New member
Stack & tilt is the commonalities of the greatest players, easy to learn, easy to understand, a 10 point plan, simple.
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