ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
So we should only get involved in wars that have the support of the public then? How does the government gauge that? Do we have a referendum on going to war and what percentage in favour is needed to show support for it?
Another flipping war
- Thread starter drawboy
- Start date
So we should only get involved in wars that have the support of the public then? How does the government gauge that? Do we have a referendum on going to war and what percentage in favour is needed to show support for it?
That is how parliament is supposed to work. We speak to our MP's, they report back to parliament and vote accordingly. Clearly it does not usually work that way, MP's tend to make their own mind up, but that is the theory. There was huge and very clear opposition to the war in Iraq but MP's on the whole chose to ignore that.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
If it wasn't for labour swaying the vote and not supporting military action perhaps, rightly or wrongly, we could have made a difference. Should we feel ashamed , not in the slightest. We keep being told we are not the world's policeman. When we don't act as the world's policeman the bleeding hearts come out in droves.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
And your vote will not count if you only have a certificate for swimming a width.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
But who are you blaming? It would be interesting to know who exactly you hold culpable. From your earlier post it sounds like you are blaming all of us as uncaring and selfish.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I am unsure about whether us doing anything back in 2013 was the right thing or the wrong thing. My basic beliefs would tell me that we should have intervened - and that historic outcomes of similar events do not set a precedent. But even subsequently we have not done all we could to support displaced Syrians fleeing the hell - our record on taking Syrian refugees hardly being startling - with even the relatively small numbers accepted being actually opposed by many.
I am afraid I am coming to believe that many folk in this country don't actually care a jot about Syrian refugees - and if they say that they do then they most certainly don't want refugees to impact upon their quality or way of life; or standard of living. Someone closer to Syria can deal with them Not our problem.
Sadly.
Jensen
Tour Rookie
If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was us from the West fleeing to Middle Eastern countries, it would be interesting what help/welcome, support we would receive from the Muslim brotherhood!
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Bringing large numbers to the Uk is not a good plan in my opinion. i dont like what has happened in places like Sweden and Germany. We have been a major funder of resettlement camps and aid for refugees in the area.
What do you think about the reaction of the rich Muslim countries in the Middle East, most of them have taken not one. What about Eastern Europe or Russia, their compassion for these people is miniscule compared to us.
You always seem to be quick to debase your own Nation but are very lacking in pointing your finger at others.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
I want to know how come all these people tweeting/posting videos about how bad it is in Aleppo, manage to get better Wi-Fi/4G connections better than Tashy in good old Northumberland 😂
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Zilch. We would have to stay and fight with our backs to the wall.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I would want all nations to react to the situation in the same way.
I do not think I debase my own nation by suggesting that many UK citizens might not actually care that much about Syrian Refugees. Please tell me I am wrong. But the fact that many would seem resent the UK accepting Syrian refugees in any numbers - or indeed any at all; would happily see the back of the UK resident immigrant community, or would oppose a unilateral granting of permanent residency without a quid pro quo from the EU - these things would suggest to me that compassion to 'others than us' may be limited in many of the 'indigenous' UK population.
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
Are you the same SILH who opposed bombing ISIS in Syria?
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
I think you are wrong. I believe British people do care about Syrian refugees and those still in Aleppo and other war torn cities. I just think that many British people accept that we cannot do everything and what we can do will never be enough.
Your choice of the word "debase" is excellent. The UK is debased continually over this and yet what we have done is almost entirely ignored. As you say, every nation should be taking action. If they did the problem would be significantly eased. We are very good at debasing ourselves. I wonder if the same questions on caring about Syria enough are being held in other counties like India, Pakistan, China, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Panama, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Switzerland, Mexico....
Sweep
Journeyman Pro
If we are going to be wringing our hands over this, isn't it time we looked at the UN? Here we are in the ridiculous situation where one of the nations that makes up the Security Council is prosecuting the war in Syria and assisting in committing war crimes. Helping a tyrant barrel bomb his own people and execute his citizens in their own homes. Surely it's time to kick this evil regime off the Security Council? I know there will be those who say we must keep them onside so we can discuss things and prevent war, but frankly it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The Russians aren't interested and it isn't working. As the American Ambassador to the UN said, Russia, Iran and Syria have no shame. Russia can't even take part in sport without mass, state sponsored cheating for crying out loud!
Surely, if this dreadful war has taught us anything it is that, as a world, as mankind, as a species we are incapable of stopping these conflicts that blight our existence and disgrace humanity. Surely now we should turn our efforts and attention to the prevention of war in the first place. The first and most obvious action would be to stop and stop today selling arms to evil regimes like Saudi Arabia. Do we really need these people so badly that we must help them wage war and murder indiscriminately? Even the US has stopped selling them arms! Let's just stop. Think about what we are doing and start to prosecute peace. That means forging ties with nations who are interested in our goals and not continually battling bullies like Russia in the Security Council. Let's show Russia and the rest that we are not interested in dealing with warmongers. Enough of the softly, softly approach. You can't deal with evil that way.
Surely, if this dreadful war has taught us anything it is that, as a world, as mankind, as a species we are incapable of stopping these conflicts that blight our existence and disgrace humanity. Surely now we should turn our efforts and attention to the prevention of war in the first place. The first and most obvious action would be to stop and stop today selling arms to evil regimes like Saudi Arabia. Do we really need these people so badly that we must help them wage war and murder indiscriminately? Even the US has stopped selling them arms! Let's just stop. Think about what we are doing and start to prosecute peace. That means forging ties with nations who are interested in our goals and not continually battling bullies like Russia in the Security Council. Let's show Russia and the rest that we are not interested in dealing with warmongers. Enough of the softly, softly approach. You can't deal with evil that way.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
You don't expect him to stick to his arguments without acknowledging he has changed his views. He also seems to forget the millions in money and help we have spent in the area establishing refugee camps so that as soon as the situation changes people can move back to their own country - the UN preferred solution as opposed to the Labour solution (yes the party that opposed any worth while action be taken in Syria).
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Quite possibily
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I'm not a great fan of bombing when it puts civilian lives at risk.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
In an earlier post you appear to suggest military action, what kind of military action would that be a exactly
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Any military action that might protect civilians. That is not for me to determine.
And I will repeat what I said when I re-opened this discussion
I am unsure about whether us doing anything back in 2013 was the right thing or the wrong thing. My basic beliefs would tell me that we should have intervened
But for clarification (if that is really needed) I shall add one more word to thay last sentence
My basic Christian beliefs would tell me that we should have intervened
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NWJocko
Tour Winner
Out of interest what difference do you think adding that word into the sentence makes?
Do your beliefs not tell you we should be intervening wherever there are humanitarian problems or do you pick and choose?
