Andy Murray wins 1st title since return

richart said:
Can’t really agree. Rafa won his first non French major in 2008. Novak won his first in 2008. Their careers have overlapped in all but the French which Rafa won at a young age, but also well into his 30’s. Rafa is just not as good in non French majors as Novak and Roger. All have had major injuries and have come back to win again. Could only agree if you think Rafa peaked at 21 and has been on the decline ever since !!

Novak also has a winning record against Rafa and Roger over something like 13 years. Can you be the best ever with a losing record over 13 years against another player ? Just asking.:unsure::unsure:;):)
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Tbh they all have a favourite major, granted Rafas is slightly heavier in the weighting of his wins. But imo Rafa Had peaked by 2010, at which point Djokovic had 1 major and Rafa 10. Djok then had a pretty clear run imo. Of course it could be argued that it was imply that Djok went tot another level above what fed and Rafa could. I don’t agree, but respect that POV. The fact that Rafa and Fed have now had a second wind may make it appear that they’ve been at it nome stop since early 2000 but imo they’re aren’t as good now as they were then, but they’ve adapted and as the 3 of them are streets ahead of the rest It’s now a case of whoever has the best 2 weeks wins.

Re the win records. As I believe they’ve peaked at different times obv my opinion differs. I’m not surprised he has better record. Would be interesting to see it year by year and if there was a defining point where it turned. Having had a little look, it’s certainly not favourable for fed. Djokovic has 2 more over Nadal, having played 2 more on hard court (Djokovic fav),but Nadal,has the better major h2h. So I’d say it’s 6 of one....
 
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Papas1982 said:
Tbh they all have a favourite major, granted Rafas is slightly heavier in the weighting of his wins. But imo Rafa Had peaked by 2010, at which point Djokovic had 1 major and Rafa 10. Djok then had a pretty clear run imo. Of course it could be argued that it was imply that Djok went tot another level above what fed and Rafa could. I don’t agree, but respect that POV. The fact that Rafa and Fed have now had a second wind may make it appear that they’ve been at it nome stop since early 2000 but imo they’re aren’t as good now as they were then, but they’ve adapted and as the 3 of them are streets ahead of the rest It’s now a case of whoever has the best 2 weeks wins.

Re the win records. As I believe they’ve peaked at different times obv my opinion differs. I’m not surprised he has better record. Would be interesting to see it year by year and if there was a defining point where it turned. Having had a little look, it’s certainly not favourable for fed. Djokovic has 2 more over Nadal, having played 2 more on hard court (Djokovic fav),but Nadal,has the better major h2h. So I’d say it’s 6 of one....
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Why did Rafa suddenly drop from his peak at the age of 24. Most players peak around 24-30 ? He has also won more majors since 2010 than before. Personally think he won more titles at an early age, because Novak was not such a force. Rafa was competitive at a much younger age.

I think Rafa’s French titles, 12 out of 19 is much more than ‘slightly weighted’. He is a slow court bully. On fast courts he struggles more with his heavy top spin shots. To be the best player of your era you need to win consistently on more than one surface. Roger and Novak have done this, and they have also had to beat the likes of Murray Stan, Del Porto, Cilic, etc who are/were competitive on surfaces other than clay.

Good debate, but you know I am right.:):)

Tennis is lucky to have three of the top players ever to play at the same time. Murray is unlucky to be around at exactly the same time, but still has a decent record, and has given huge pleasure to many British tennis fans.
 
richart said:
Why did Rafa suddenly drop from his peak at the age of 24. Most players peak around 24-30 ? He has also won more majors since 2010 than before. Personally think he won more titles at an early age, because Novak was not such a force. Rafa was competitive at a much younger age.

I think Rafa’s French titles, 12 out of 19 is much more than ‘slightly weighted’. He is a slow court bully. On fast courts he struggles more with his heavy top spin shots. To be the best player of your era you need to win consistently on more than one surface. Roger and Novak have done this, and they have also had to beat the likes of Murray Stan, Del Porto, Cilic, etc who are/were competitive on surfaces other than clay.

Good debate, but you know I am right.:):)

Tennis is lucky to have three of the top players ever to play at the same time. Murray is unlucky to be around at exactly the same time, but still has a decent record, and has given huge pleasure to many British tennis fans.
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Rafa has a, quite rare, foot problem (Kohlers Foot) that has plagued him throughout his career. He's used special shoes, from age 17, to combat it, but that 'adjustment' causes issues with his knees - thus the bandages below them. He has to 'manage' his schedule significantly more than others.

Oh, and I totally agree with the rest of your post. Murray is, indeed, 'unlucky' (ranking wise) to have encountered Djok at his absolute best, but he still managed to become and stay at #1 for some time. I've always been a fan (forgiving his PR blunder), so hope he can continue his 'recovery' to become truly competitive at the top again.
 
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richart said:
Why did Rafa suddenly drop from his peak at the age of 24. Most players peak around 24-30 ? He has also won more majors since 2010 than before. Personally think he won more titles at an early age, because Novak was not such a force. Rafa was competitive at a much younger age.

I think Rafa’s French titles, 12 out of 19 is much more than ‘slightly weighted’. He is a slow court bully. On fast courts he struggles more with his heavy top spin shots. To be the best player of your era you need to win consistently on more than one surface. Roger and Novak have done this, and they have also had to beat the likes of Murray Stan, Del Porto, Cilic, etc who are/were competitive on surfaces other than clay.

Good debate, but you know I am right.:):)

Tennis is lucky to have three of the top players ever to play at the same time. Murray is unlucky to be around at exactly the same time, but still has a decent record, and has given huge pleasure to many British tennis fans.
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The Novak has 10 on the same surface, but I accept his number of wins on grass show he’s more adaptable. I think an argument can Be made for all 3. Fed generally accepted as the best to watch, Novak has the best record during meets, yet Rafa the best record when it counts (majors).

I do think Rafa peaked earlier, But Accept could be because Novak was simply better and Rafa couldn’t handle it. It didn’t appear like that to me when I watched them, yes Novak was superb, but I felt Rafa had lost a step.

Re him winning more since 2010. Obviously he ticked over picking up the french every year he was fit, but the last few years the top 3, with Andy falling away have basically had the majors locked down when one of them is fit. I think the last 12 majors they’ve met in finals maybe twice, where as they used to have to beat one another in a final. It looks good to add to their legacy, but imo does show a lack of real talent of real talent coming through.

Not sure I really feel sorry for Murray as such. Yes in different eras he may have win more, but I’ve got more respect for the few majors he did win beating the greats, than if he’d picked up half a dozen beating Herman, Ivanisevic etc.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Can you just imagine how big a national hero Andy would have been if he had been born in England.
Lord Murray of Short Trousered Wimbledon no doubt.:love:
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As opposed to the Sir Andy Murray he is now

Why do you always have to add some anti English bitterness to every post - it’s almost as if you want people to hate the Scottish

You are nothing but a WUM
 
Well pleased to see Britain's second best ever player make another step on the road of recovery... Not sure winning a third tier tournament against an opponent who is also returning from injury is a good indicator of being anywhere near back to his best though...
 
Great to see him back and what a fighter. Set down in both the semi final and final and battled back.

He'll win a Slam again in my view due to his mentality. If his hip holds up and he picks his tournaments like the rest of the elite do.

Agree with Federer>anyone else. Novak is a robot and the times I've seen him have never been blown away.

Looking forward to London next month - definitely get there for a few days. Anyone else going?
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Sad reflection on society that a couple of folk on here wish the greatest ever British tennis player ill after a brave recovery from a career threatening injury.
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He certainly is the greatest British player ever and having had both my hips resurfaced and know how good the results have been I'm sure he'll win again
 
MegaSteve said:
Well pleased to see Britain's second best ever player make another step on the road of recovery... Not sure winning a third tier tournament against an opponent who is also returning from injury is a good indicator of being anywhere near back to his best though...
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Were any of the big guns actually in this tournament?
 
Norrin Radd said:
Yes there was ,Andy Murray ,heard of him ? was and will be again a big gun ,if the so called big three want to win a major again they will have to beat Murray
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Lets see what round they have to beat him in first before we get too carried away.

Nadal n fed took a few years to get back to the top after injuries and are better players than Andy.

I'd like to see him win one more major. Think it woukd be a good send off. A bit like Tigers August win.
 
Orikoru said:
Were any of the big guns actually in this tournament?
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Most of the seeds are In the Top 20 current men’s rankings

But it’s not about who he beat on the court that makes the win impressive - it’s what he has had to go through in regards his hip surgery - the win shouldn’t be dismissed so easily


As for the other discussion in regards the greatest ever - at the moment Federer is number one but when they all finish ( current bunch ) - I see Djokovic as being ahead

I don’t know why he doesn’t get as much credit as the other two
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Most of the seeds are In the Top 20 current men’s rankings

But it’s not about who he beat on the court that makes the win impressive - it’s what he has had to go through in regards his hip surgery - the win shouldn’t be dismissed so easily


As for the other discussion in regards the greatest ever - at the moment Federer is number one but when they all finish ( current bunch ) - I see Djokovic as being ahead

I don’t know why he doesn’t get as much credit as the other two
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Because he's far less of a showman I think, that's all it is. Nadal and Federer have more personality on court, which romantic tennis fans connect to. Whereas Djokovic is just kind of dull but ruthlessly efficient. It's a shame because he does seem every bit the nice guy when interviewed and stuff.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Sad reflection on society that a couple of folk on here wish the greatest ever British tennis player ill after a brave recovery from a career threatening injury.
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H'mm...Greatest of the modern era (so far) certainly.

I believe Fred Perry is recognised as the great Brit player ever though. At least until Murray exceeds his 8 Grand Slam and 4 Major (Pro) Singles wins, plus 6 Mens/Mixed Doubles Majors and 4 Davis Cup wins

And for some (perhaps/probably a little sinister) reason I've received an article from Quora on the subject.

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-the-best-among-Roger-Federer-Rafael-Nadal-and-Novak-Djokovic-Why

Caution! While seemingly harmless, the site may grab your IP Adress to send you 'junk stuff that it thinks you might be interested in'!
 
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