And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 15344]

If you take retrospective action, how does the team the offence was committed against benefit?
As said Snodgrass could've put the ball over the bar.
Instead he takes no responsibility and even his tweet is a piss take.
I don't believe they'll take points but that to me is the only way teams would take it seriously.

There is other offences within the game that happen more regualry - deliberate pulls in the box , shirt grabbing , deliberate handballs , deliberate trips , fouls that should be red instead of yellow - events that if correctly punished give the opposition the benefit there and then - should the retrospective action be points taken off the team whose player committed the offence ? For example should Man Utd had points deducted for the Rojo tackle which for me is worse than diving , should Chelsea had points deducted for Luiz incident ?

The action should always be against the player - the teams also need to take action against the player - bans , fines etc - right now there is no action against players so that needs to be done first , as soon as and start to be given out the players will start to shape up

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There is other offences within the game that happen more regualry - deliberate pulls in the box , shirt grabbing , deliberate handballs , deliberate trips , fouls that should be red instead of yellow - events that if correctly punished give the opposition the benefit there and then - should the retrospective action be points taken off the team whose player committed the offence ? For example should Man Utd had points deducted for the Rojo tackle which for me is worse than diving , should Chelsea had points deducted for Luiz incident ?

The action should always be against the player - the teams also need to take action against the player - bans , fines etc - right now there is no action against players so that needs to be done first , as soon as and start to be given out the players will start to shape up

I know 99% disagree, but that's why it should be a tier'd system, 30 bookings or 10 Reds - lose 1 point, 50 bookings or 15 Reds another 2 points, etc
With modern squads and wages missing 1 player for 3 games or 50 grand fines has little impact, losing points impacts on everyone and everyone would feel a collective responsibility.

 

[garyinderry]

I'd like to see automatic red cards for dives in the box. It would make a diver think twice before throwing themselves down.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I know 99% disagree, but that's why it should be a tier'd system, 30 bookings or 10 Reds - lose 1 point, 50 bookings or 15 Reds another 2 points, etc
With modern squads and wages missing 1 player for 3 games or 50 grand fines has little impact, losing points impacts on everyone and everyone would feel a collective responsibility.

Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair.

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure.

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.

 

[Papas1982]

Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair.

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure.

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.

What if that players dive is in the 90th minute of the last game of the season and secures CL footy or the title? Then the team they beat (for the league or 4th) has been done over by someone's actions.

All players know know when they are diving and if they knew the repercussions then I think it could change things. That said, it'll NEVER happen. Just like at the start of season pens were given formshirt pulling. Still happens as much. Same as when players were gonna be booked for approaching refs.

These ideas get debated each year or so. Then blow over.

 

[Slime]

I haven't seen it but did hear that he said that he was diving out of the way of the tackle and that it shouldn't have been a penalty ? So how do they prove that he was looking for it ?

That's a blatant lie ............... and he knows it.
If he's that apologetic he should have missed the penalty.

 

[One Planer]

That's a blatant lie ............... and he knows it.
If he's that apologetic he should have missed the penalty.

Or at least not celebrated in the manor he did!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What if that players dive is in the 90th minute of the last game of the season and secures CL footy or the title? Then the team they beat (for the league or 4th) has been done over by someone's actions.

All players know know when they are diving and if they knew the repercussions then I think it could change things. That said, it'll NEVER happen. Just like at the start of season pens were given formshirt pulling. Still happens as much. Same as when players were gonna be booked for approaching refs.

These ideas get debated each year or so. Then blow over.

Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players.

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect

 

[Papas1982]

Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players.

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect

It may nit ever happen. But that shouldn't be a safety net for all teams to think they can dove as their are no repercussions. I'm not goin to feel sorry for poor players who miss out on playing in the CL Beira series of their team mates actions over those of the team that could be cheated out of a position.

As to more serious crimes. A player making a disgusting tackle, whilst able to have lasting effects on a players career. A team will likely suffer more directly to conceding a penalty and losing points. I'd imagine more teams that have been 0-0 and had a player sent off have gotten a draw than teams that have conceded a penalty at 0-0.

 

[Sweep]

So one instance yesterday out of all the games played and one from last season, proves your point then!
I totally agree it's cheating and disgraceful and needs stamping out, but it's nothing new, diving has been going on for years, Francis Lee in the early 70's was one of the best.
Football is bigger and more popular than it's ever been so it must be doing something right.
If it's become a laughing stock it's for the obscene amount of money in the game.

It's every week.
I agree about the money though

 

[Old Skier]

Remember it's only cheating if it's done AGAINST you or your team.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Right now there is no repercussions beyond a yellow card and the incident above has never occurred or even come close to occurring.

If a player dives in the game today the maximum penalty for them is a yellow card , to most that's a nothing punishment - first stage is to increase that punishment to a red straight away if it's in the box as been mentioined already and then the FA have the chance to increase bans and the teams need to make themselves responsible and discipline their own players.

If you start deducting points for diving then it creates a bigger problem because there are offences in the game that have just as big affect on the game and in some causes a bigger affect

I'm not suggesting points being deducted for diving, I'm suggesting points for Red and Yellow cards, therefore every offence can have an impact, Players/managers would have to look at every aspect of their performance,
Snodgrass will face absolutely no repucussions and his team certainly won't punish him. Makes no difference to him whether it's red or yellow, as far as the system cares he was fouled.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not suggesting points being deducted for diving, I'm suggesting points for Red and Yellow cards, therefore every offence can have an impact, Players/managers would have to look at every aspect of their performance,
Snodgrass will face absolutely no repucussions and his team certainly won't punish him. Makes no difference to him whether it's red or yellow, as far as the system cares he was fouled.

Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.

 

[garyinderry]

Its a non starter even debating that. Never going to happen. Its a contact sport. Yellows and reds are part and parcel of it all.

 

[One Planer]

Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.

Would a compromise be points deductions for retrospective bans/action?

Use the Snodgrass incident as an example.

Because of Snodgrass' blatant dive, Crystal palace have been, potentially, cheated out of 2 points.

Is that fair.

Why not retrospectively award Palace the win with Hull getting nothing. Incidents and punishment of this nature would soon pull players and clubs into line.

 

[Sweep]

Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair.

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure.

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.

It's a team game. Players play for each other. The point is if the punishment is severe enough the player won't commit the offence in the first place. Would you like to be the guy that cost your team the title or a place in Europe by being caught cheating? It would be a start if the football fraternity actually started to refer to it as cheating. All I hear now is "it's part of the game".

Its all a pointless debate. Nothing will happen. We have all had endless discussion on how football can be governed better, but little happens. It's that bad the only conclusion I can come to is that they run it badly on purpose so that people like us talk about it. 4+ hours of football talk programs on Sky alone this morning. Much of it on penalties that should or shouldn't have been. Not actually that much on great skill like the Zaha goal.

 

[Imurg]

Why should innocent people be punished though - that's what happens if the team is affected by taking points. What happens if deducting a point or two means that a team misses out on Europe or even winning the title - one person's action affected the whole squad, players who have prob never been booked all season long get punished as well, that doesn't seem fair.

And then there is the refs - knowing that cards could mean points taken off , they get put under even more pressure.

Sorry but in no other sport does a single person's action mean punishment for the whole club - you punish the player in the strictest possibly way - adding in points deductions for bookable offences is beyond way over the top.

Punishing the team for one players actions is what happens when someone gets sent off.
Punishing the team with points deductions for one players actions may make teams, managers and players realise that what is going on has to stop and if it doesn't then they lose more points. If they miss out on the League or Europe then that's the way it goes.
It's up to the clubs and the managers to somehow drill into the thick skull of the modern day footballer that it's not acceptable.
And if it takes points deductions then so be it.
It's a TEAM game after all......

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would a compromise be points deductions for retrospective bans/action?

Use the Snodgrass incident as an example.

Because of Snodgrass' blatant dive, Crystal palace have been, potentially, cheated out of 2 points.

Is that fair.

Why not retrospectively award Palace the win with Hull getting nothing. Incidents and punishment of this nature would soon pull players and clubs into line.

Where do you stop - referee gives a penalty that shouldn't have been given , players pulls a shirt to stop someone going clean through and it's missed , player deliberately trips a player , player should have been given a red and the team goes on to win - the list is endless

With the amount of incorrect decisions given out over the season multiple games could have results overturned or points taken off and given.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Points for yellow and red cards ?!! That's even worse - sorry but that's ridiculous. The refs have a hard enough job as it is without heaping even more pressure on them. Why such a harsh punishment when they have already been given a card ? That would make an absolute mockery of the sport and thankfully is something that I'm 100% certain will never get introduced into the game because it's that ridiculous.

So do nothing, I acknowledged 99% would disagree and the amount of Yellow and Red Cards needed to result in losing points would have to be looked at.

Everton had the most Yellow Cards last Season (67) if they knew they could lose a point after 50 bookings, the attitude or petulant fouls or diving might stop.
Fines and bans have changed nothing, maybe we need to think outside the box and consider the ridiculous to at least try and get an answer.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Punishing the team for one players actions is what happens when someone gets sent off.
Punishing the team with points deductions for one players actions may make teams, managers and players realise that what is going on has to stop and if it doesn't then they lose more points. If they miss out on the League or Europe then that's the way it goes.
It's up to the clubs and the managers to somehow drill into the thick skull of the modern day footballer that it's not acceptable.
And if it takes points deductions then so be it.
It's a TEAM game after all......

Points dedications for actions that happen on the field would make a mockery of the sport - it's never going to happen because it's just not a workable solution

Right now there is very little retrospective action taken after the game - it's all dependant on the refs report.

The next natural progressive step is simply assesing the game after and then adding in retrospective cards/bans for any offence that is deemed to require it

Diving , violent conduct , clear red card offences that have been missed.

If the players know that any action that they commit will be picked up after then it's going to make them think twice

But points deduction - total non starter