And, we're off.....2016/17

[Deleted member 16999]

Do you think Aguero should only get the standard 3 match ban, for that tackle?

That tackle at least deserves another 1 game, minimum, otherwise there is no deterrent. Sometimes you have to punish for the intent of a tackle, rather than the result of it.

I believe it's an automatic 4 match ban as it's his second Red Card this season, whether they give anymore is anyones guess.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Why Paul? Chalobah was booked at the time so i would expect that to be the end of it.

Me too, Chalobah's push want that bad, yellow yes, but no worse.

Ive never bought into this "he raised his hands" guff, which is mainly something spouted by telly pundits. To me, its mainly based on if you push/punch/elbow the head, and not so much doing it to someones chest.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Wow Bournemouth!

Woeful defending by Liverpool and more evidence that they tire as the game goes on.

The downside to playing with such high intensity I suppose, need to pace themselves lol.

Absolute rubbish, nothing to do with tiredness, just to do with rank bad defending. How many have we scored in the last 10-15 minutes, compared to what we've conceded?

Today was what sums the premiership up, you just cant relax as no-one gives up.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Premiership winning teams generally have a great goalkeeper and I don't think Liverpool have one.

Totally correct, with regards to our keeper, although youse won it with Lehmann.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I believe it's an automatic 4 match ban as it's his second Red Card this season, whether they give anymore is anyones guess.

Correct, but that is the standard 3, plus the standard one, as he has had the second red card.

There is no decision making in that process. I'm asking if more games should be added on, on top of the 3+1, due to the nature of that tackle, and IMO, it should be another 1-2 (and not because it would mean him missing our game).

By the end of the season that will be in the worst 2-3 tackles of the season. Today Rojo's was a red, but still not in the same ball park as Aguero's.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I didnt see the last 30 mins of the Everton game, but hardly any Everton play was through the midfield, with most balls into Luaku coming from 50 yards away.

Rank bad, and amateur defending by United for the pen - must have been watching us earlier, eh Tony? :rofl:

 

[Tashyboy]

Correct, but that is the standard 3, plus the standard one, as he has had the second red card.

There is no decision making in that process. I'm asking if more games should be added on, on top of the 3+1, due to the nature of that tackle, and IMO, it should be another 1-2 (and not because it would mean him missing our game).

By the end of the season that will be in the worst 2-3 tackles of the season. Today Rojo's was a red, but still not in the same ball park as Aguero's.

just watched Dermot Gallachers assessment of " iffy decisions " over the weekend. Re the tree main talking points, Agueros was bad very bad and he knows what is coming. Gareth Barry's, very naughty that was a potential leg snapper. Rojos was worse than Barry's. They are career threatening tackles. Cannot understand how they were not reds, what I cannot also understand is that say an attempted elbow is missed by the ref, you can make retrospective decisions on a Monday. Why not with tackles like those.
Having said all that there was some excellent decisions by refs as well.

 

[Liverbirdie]

just watched Dermot Gallachers assessment of " iffy decisions " over the weekend. Re the tree main talking points, Agueros was bad very bad and he knows what is coming. Gareth Barry's, very naughty that was a potential leg snapper. Rojos was worse than Barry's. They are career threatening tackles. Cannot understand how they were not reds, what I cannot also understand is that say an attempted elbow is missed by the ref, you can make retrospective decisions on a Monday. Why not with tackles like those.
Having said all that there was some excellent decisions by refs as well.

I haven't seen the Barry one, as didn't see all the match.

It all stems from this ridiculous thing that if the ref has given a yellow, it has been dealt with.

A typical example would be that if the ref has somehow inexplicable missed Agueros tackle (in the same way Rojo's was), that Aguero would only get a yellow, but as it has been seen he will miss 4 games minimum, possibly 5-6.

All players/clubs have gained from it and all been on the wrong end of it, but all-in-all its a woeful perspective of it all from the FA.

 

[freddielong]

I haven't seen the Barry one, as didn't see all the match.

It all stems from this ridiculous thing that if the ref has given a yellow, it has been dealt with.

A typical example would be that if the ref has somehow inexplicable missed Agueros tackle (in the same way Rojo's was), that Aguero would only get a yellow, but as it has been seen he will miss 4 games minimum, possibly 5-6.

All players/clubs have gained from it and all been on the wrong end of it, but all-in-all its a woeful perspective of it all from the FA.

I think also if the ref has seen it and dealt with it (rightly or wrongly ) if you then change that you are under mining the refs authority on the pitch, if the ref didn't see it then it's fair game.

 

[Hobbit]

For me, Pogba hasn't looked anywhere near being an £80M player...

He may not be firing on all cylinders but I thought he was half decent yesterday. Mind you, it wasn't hard to shine in that rubbish. Woeful game for the spectator.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.

 

[stokie_93]

I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.

I’m totally with you on this, I cant believe that it’s not been brought in to football as of yet.

It’d also prevent so many decisions, look at Dele Alli’s dive at the weekend for instance.
Ashley Barnes should’ve been off against us at the weekend for a blatant elbow but the ref didn’t see it. Being able to review play would clearly show these things.

 

[pokerjoke]

Yes Pete rank defending.Overall once again we were better than the opposition but failed to get a 2nd,I for one don't understand why we are failing to kill teams off I really thought we were turning a corner.I still believe 4th is there and am more worried of Spurs than Liverpool no surprise there.Apart from when Liverpool came 2nd for the last 10 years they have been miles behind and their main problem has always been weaker teams.Long way to go but a run is on its way.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes Pete rank defending.Overall once again we were better than the opposition but failed to get a 2nd,I for one don't understand why we are failing to kill teams off I really thought we were turning a corner.I still believe 4th is there and am more worried of Spurs than Liverpool no surprise there.Apart from when Liverpool came 2nd for the last 10 years they have been miles behind and their main problem has always been weaker teams.Long way to go but a run is on its way.

As much as I didn't rate us, Steklenburg didn't have one save to make, De Gea was far busier, surely to kill teams off you've got to create chances, you only had slightly more possession less attempts at goal and less on target. apart from Herrera hitting the woodwork you just didn't create the chances or play anywhere near as well as midweek against West Ham, as Hobbit put woeful game.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Two out of form teams. I must get a pair of Maureen's glasses, he was watching a different match to everyone else.

 

[pokerjoke]

Paul woeful game yes but up until your goal I never felt we were going to lose,once you scored yes the crowd woke up and you pressed but once we had 1 I would have liked to c Mate and Rashford and go for a 2nd as appossed to Fellaini as a more defence minded player.Onwards and upwards hopefully.

 

[MegaSteve]

He may not be firing on all cylinders but I thought he was half decent yesterday. Mind you, it wasn't hard to shine in that rubbish. Woeful game for the spectator.

You've summed it up perfectly... On a day he could've/should've shone he was "half decent" and that's it... Yes, I am sure some days he will shine but for £80M I'd be expecting a lot better... Thought Jose intended to build his team around him... Reckon he'll be having to rethink that...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Paul woeful game yes but up until your goal I never felt we were going to lose,once you scored yes the crowd woke up and you pressed but once we had 1 I would have liked to c Mate and Rashford and go for a 2nd as appossed to Fellaini as a more defence minded player.Onwards and upwards hopefully.

The 2 saves from De Gea were prior to the penalty and for all your posession you's really didn't create anything, even your goal was more down to an error, I was pleased when I saw Mata on the bench, if you'd gone for it after half time it would of been better, I was surprised how early your players started time wasting, probably better trying to kill teams off than protecting one goal. Rashford needs more time on the pitch and I thought Carrick was your best player, he seemed to be everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don't see that reviewing decisions undermines refs. It doesn't in cricket, rugby looks at bad tackles after the game. A ref doesn't have a perfect view, cameras do. The Rojo tackle was a horror and I think if the ref see that again from the better camera angles he would acknowledge it is a sure fire red. Now Rojo escapes punishment. That is just wrong when his tackle was just as career threatening as the Aguero one on Saturday. Surely the important thing is to reach the correct decision whether during or after the match when it comes to red card offences.

Cameras certainly don't have a perfect view, they are only two-dimensional so they lack depth perception.

They may help but they are not infallible.

Personally I would like to see a return to the attitude where the ref is right even when he is wrong but I realise that is not going to happen. Too many smart arse analysts and TV viewers with their Super Slow-Mo and 17 different camera angles.

All reflects the society we live in. Don't like a ref's decision, demand a review. Don't like a referendum result, demand a rerun.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

MM - I'm afraid those days have long gone. The moment we got 20 cameras at a match, sports phone ins, 24hr sports news channels to fill. I actually agree with you and in my own sporting days any question of a decision was done in the bar after a game, camly and politely. Refs/umpires encouraged it, after the match of course, and all parties learnt something from the experience. Sometimes that the ref was a prat but usually why the decision was made, even if it was a wrong decision.

TV cameras don't offer perfection but I bet Michael Oilver wishes he could have seen that tackle again in slow motion and from three different angles. He doesn't get that luxury which is why I have not criticised him at all, just the system that allows the offender to escape. The refs assessor will have seen it and reported it, that's for sure.