And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Orikoru]

That makes it a non contact sport then.
Gomez was injured by a similar tackle against Burnley , the ref didn’t give a foul.
VVD got the ball his follow through wasn’t high it was just an accident.
This has been coming for years , by all the divers and cheats who over react to genuine challenges.

So why if two players go for a header in the box striker gets the ball and the defender gets the striker , how many penalty’s have you seen given for the follow through with his head.

No it doesn't, it just means don't slide tackle in a way that will see your upturned studs drive into the player's leg. They've redefined that as a 'reckless' tackle, that's all. You can still make slide tackles that take ball and then man as long as it's across the front of him, not through the back and not impacting him with your studs.

 

[Junior]

Is that the one were he got the ball first in a sliding tackle then momentum carried him through - that’s one a European ref gives and a Prem ref doesn’t, im not sure what else VVD can do

It was tongue in cheek. I thought Valencia should have gone, and i;ve seen challeges like VVD been given a red too. Who'd be a ref these days. I thought Perreria should have been booked twice and Rashford threw himself into a two footer in the 2nd half aswell. We were awful, but i'm glad to see the passion is there with the players, even though it carries itself across into some bad challenges. If only our tactics were decent ........

 

[clubchamp98]

No it doesn't, it just means don't slide tackle in a way that will see your upturned studs drive into the player's leg. They've redefined that as a 'reckless' tackle, that's all. You can still make slide tackles that take ball and then man as long as it's across the front of him, not through the back and not impacting him with your studs.

Sorry I don’t agree.
VVD got the ball about 8/9” off the ground his foot has to land on the ground somewhere it was just an accident that the attackers foot landed at the same time.
It’s virtually impossible to tackle someone with out showing your studs a little.

Don’t know what managers will say to his defenders when he says “sorry boss I couldn’t tackle him he wasn’t in front of me.”

 

[pendodave]

Sorry I don’t agree.
VVD got the ball about 8/9” off the ground his foot has to land on the ground somewhere it was just an accident that the attackers foot landed at the same time.
It’s virtually impossible to tackle someone with out showing your studs a little.

Don’t know what managers will say to his defenders when he says “sorry boss I couldn’t tackle him he wasn’t in front of me.”

This (and Phil's) comments remind me why certain supporter groups are not worry engaging with.
If a tackle could have badly injured the oppo (and this obviously could), then it's a booking. Has there been an appeal? No. Would one have the faintest chance of succeeding? No
Suck it up, think yourself lucky it wasn't a red and move on....

 

[Orikoru]

Sorry I don’t agree.
VVD got the ball about 8/9” off the ground his foot has to land on the ground somewhere it was just an accident that the attackers foot landed at the same time.
It’s virtually impossible to tackle someone with out showing your studs a little.

Don’t know what managers will say to his defenders when he says “sorry boss I couldn’t tackle him he wasn’t in front of me.”

I've not made any judgement on Van Dijk's tackle, I haven't even watched it. He wasn't sent off was he? So the ref must have not deemed it reckless.

Don't know if you saw it but what about Vertonghen's second yellow against Arsenal? As you say he won the ball then his foot just followed through and inadvertently stepped on the Arsenal player's foot.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

This reminds me of the argument about headers and elbows. Remember when old school strikers used to say you can't jump without swinging your elbows and so the odd smashed eye socket and cheekbone was all part and parcel of the game. The game decided no more, red cards came out and now you know an elbow in the face is an automatic red card, no discussion. This type of tackle will be seen in the same light in a few years time. Players adapt, they have to if they want to keep getting picked.

 

[clubchamp98]

I've not made any judgement on Van Dijk's tackle, I haven't even watched it. He wasn't sent off was he? So the ref must have not deemed it reckless.

Don't know if you saw it but what about Vertonghen's second yellow against Arsenal? As you say he won the ball then his foot just followed through and inadvertently stepped on the Arsenal player's foot.

I am a bit biased in this area as I was a CB.
For me VVDs wasn’t a yellow as he clearly got the ball.
The attackers foot landed in the same place as VVD that’s just an accident as the attacker no longer had control of the ball.
Vertongens was very similar (I only seen it once on motd) he clearly got the ball.
We could turn it on it’s head and say it’s the strikers responsibility to react once he has lost control of the ball .

Reckless?? A professional foul is reckless bringing someone down deliberately from behind , no attempt for the ball yet most only get a yellow .

 

[Bunkermagnet]

This reminds me of the argument about headers and elbows. Remember when old school strikers used to say you can't jump without swinging your elbows and so the odd smashed eye socket and cheekbone was all part and parcel of the game. The game decided no more, red cards came out and now you know an elbow in the face is an automatic red card, no discussion. This type of tackle will be seen in the same light in a few years time. Players adapt, they have to if they want to keep getting picked.

I thought the VVD was a yellow, studs down and not intentiional but just a yellow.
However the ref didn't really help himself through the game, especially when giving the Napoli keeper a free kick because of obstruction...which actually was his own team-mate.

 

[clubchamp98]

This reminds me of the argument about headers and elbows. Remember when old school strikers used to say you can't jump without swinging your elbows and so the odd smashed eye socket and cheekbone was all part and parcel of the game. The game decided no more, red cards came out and now you know an elbow in the face is an automatic red card, no discussion. This type of tackle will be seen in the same light in a few years time. Players adapt, they have to if they want to keep getting picked.

Two players go for a 50/50 ball one gets the ball one gets the man =foul!

Not if you headbutt him in the head according to most refs , what’s the difference?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This (and Phil's) comments remind me why certain supporter groups are not worry engaging with.
If a tackle could have badly injured the oppo (and this obviously could), then it's a booking. Has there been an appeal? No. Would one have the faintest chance of succeeding? No
Suck it up, think yourself lucky it wasn't a red and move on....

Can’t appeal a yellow so that point is moot

And any tackle could end up injuring a player so that’s not really a great argument as well - Gomez ended up with a broken leg after a tackle where the player got the ball then follow through got Gomez - wasn’t given as a foul

VVD slide in got the ball and then got the guys ankle after the ball - just a regular sliding tackle , the same as the one against Gomez

So two tackles - the same , both players got the ball , one player ended up with a broken leg the other prob a few grass burns from the rolling around on the ground and each tackle was treated differently

 

[clubchamp98]

The main problem is a player can make two genuine tackles , but get the ball and clip the striker with his follow through and he’s off for two yellows .

Yet a player can deliberately tackle someone from behind no intention of playing the ball (professional foul) and he only gets a yellow.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The main problem is a player can make two genuine tackles , but get the ball and clip the striker with his follow through and he’s off for two yellows .

Yet a player can deliberately tackle someone from behind no intention of playing the ball (professional foul) and he only gets a yellow.

There are always going to be anomalies in football but that is where you need the defender or midfielder to have a brain. If you have one yellow then don't go to ground. Stay on your feet and you are less likely to get a card. You have to play smart at times, adapt.

 

[Redskins21]

The main problem is a player can make two genuine tackles , but get the ball and clip the striker with his follow through and he’s off for two yellows .

Yet a player can deliberately tackle someone from behind no intention of playing the ball (professional foul) and he only gets a yellow.

There's generally more chance of injury with the first of type of challenge there and that's what they seem to be trying to reduce. You can fly in at full speed and cleanly take the ball before going through someones shin. Getting the ball doesn't make that a good challenge.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

There are always going to be anomalies in football but that is where you need the defender or midfielder to have a brain. If you have one yellow then don't go to ground. Stay on your feet and you are less likely to get a card. You have to play smart at times, adapt.

Thats a valid arguement, but I would counter that with VVD is probably one of the best CB's in the World, let alone the Premiership, and I would hardly class him as one who plays with no brain. He used his speed and ability to win the ball, and unfortunately caught the opposition players on the ankle with his follow through. I thought it was a very smart tackle, but because he caught the player probably a yellow card.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Thats a valid arguement, but I would counter that with VVD is probably one of the best CB's in the World, let alone the Premiership, and I would hardly class him as one who plays with no brain. He used his speed and ability to win the ball, and unfortunately caught the opposition players on the ankle with his follow through. I thought it was a very smart tackle, but because he caught the player probably a yellow card.

I said in my first post that I did not see the VVD tackle so was not making a comment about that specifically. It was more a general comment about tackling off your feet, adapting to modern refereeing etc. I agree he is one of the more intelligent and classy defenders out there.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thats a valid arguement, but I would counter that with VVD is probably one of the best CB's in the World, let alone the Premiership, and I would hardly class him as one who plays with no brain. He used his speed and ability to win the ball, and unfortunately caught the opposition players on the ankle with his follow through. I thought it was a very smart tackle, but because he caught the player probably a yellow card.

That’s a bit contradictory ,
If it’s a very smart tackle how can it be a yellow?

It was a great tackle his foot has to land somewhere!
It was just accidental. It’s not like he got his standing leg, the striker was on the move it’s impossible for a defender to know where he is going to put his foot down.
The game has gone to pot imo the art of tackling has almost gone.
That’s why I think the standard of defenders in the prem is woeful ,with some notable exceptions of course!

 

[clubchamp98]

There's generally more chance of injury with the first of type of challenge there and that's what they seem to be trying to reduce. You can fly in at full speed and cleanly take the ball before going through someones shin. Getting the ball doesn't make that a good challenge.

Not for me !
Professional foul ruptured my ACL and I never played again at 26yrs old that was tough.
This is why I think any deliberate foul with no intention of getting the ball is a straight red!

 

[Redskins21]

Not for me !
Professional foul ruptured my ACL and I never played again at 26yrs old that was tough.
This is why I think any deliberate foul with no intention of getting the ball is a straight red!

There will always be exceptions. I don't know about a straight red for all of them. Would you give one for a shirt pull on a player that's breaking still in their own half?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

That’s a bit contradictory ,
If it’s a very smart tackle how can it be a yellow?

It was a great tackle his foot has to land somewhere!
It was just accidental. It’s not like he got his standing leg, the striker was on the move it’s impossible for a defender to know where he is going to put his foot down.
The game has gone to pot imo the art of tackling has almost gone.
That’s why I think the standard of defenders in the prem is woeful ,with some notable exceptions of course!

It was a great tackle and his timing for the ball was spot on. However his follow through could have been construed as on the attackers standing leg, and the way his leg and ankle went albeit in slowmo wasnt that good.
It wasnt malicious but you know refs in European games are going ot be sensitive to the slightest (or imaginary) knock.
Perhaps our players should also practice the diviant arts so produced by many European teams when they meet in Euro matches.

 

[clubchamp98]

It was a great tackle and his timing for the ball was spot on. However his follow through could have been construed as on the attackers standing leg, and the way his leg and ankle went albeit in slowmo wasnt that good.
It wasnt malicious but you know refs in European games are going ot be sensitive to the slightest (or imaginary) knock.
Perhaps our players should also practice the diviant arts so produced by many European teams when they meet in Euro matches.

I do see your point but the attacker was on the move so his standing leg wasn’t standing.
If a player sees yellow for every accidental clash then it’s ruining the game.
OUR players already do this as most of them are from other countries.

It’s one of them thing I just see it different to you.