Abandoning ball in play

[berniethebolt]

In a friendly fourball one player hit his drive into a seemingly innocuous area of rough. On arriving at the spot it was obvious that the ball was not going to be easily found. After a couple of minutes the player decided to return to the tee and play another ball but asked the other three to keep looking and, if they found his ball, to shout and he would return and play it. This is what happened within the 5 minutes allowed and before he hit the new ball and he continued with his original ball. After the game the question was raised as to whether this was permissible under the rules. One opinion was that by, in effect, abandoning the ball he could no longer play it. The other feeling was that as the ball had not been 'lost' by any of the definitions then not only could he continue to play it but must play it. Comments?

 

[brendy]

He can't declare it lost, as long as the ball is found inside the time and he hasn't returned to the tee and actually hit the new ball he should be fine.

 

[LincolnShep]

Continuing play with the original ball was correct.

You can't "abandon" a ball any more than you can "declare" one lost. These terms aren't in the rules. A ball is lost if it is not found within five minutes, or another ball is put into play. It's not what you say, it's what you do.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Just to expand and clarify this one please, if he had returned to the tee (over a particular distance) and had hit another ball, is it correct that this becomes the ball in play (and he’s played 3) regardless of whether the original ball is found within 5 minutes.
Sorry for any confusion.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would say yes. In the scenario described he is too far from the tee to go back and play a provisional - so any ball he now hits from the tee is the ball in play and the original ball is 'dead' - whether or not it is found within 5mins of it originally being hit.

 

[brendy]

Yup, the moment he hits the new ball, he has placed this ball in play.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Cheers :thup:

 

[backwoodsman]

A few bits ...

If the player thinks the ball will not be found he can go back to play another under stroke & distance - his companions can keep looking while goes back.

If the ball is found - and it was less than five minutes from the start of the search and provided he has not put another ball in play - then he can still play the original. Worth noting that if the player is going back to play "3 off the tee", then the new ball is not in play until he has made a stroke at it. But if it is going back to play "4 (or more) off the fairway", then its in play as soon as he drops it. If he does put a ball in play and the ball is then found within the 5 mins, then tough.

Also, if the ball is found in time, he doesn't have to play it - he can still drop another at the place where last played and continue under stroke & distance. (Depending on the circumstances, it may be a good move, or maybe not )

 

[berniethebolt]

Thanks for all the information - that was the majority view. However it is not unknown for a golfer to hit a ball into deep trouble and say "I declare that lost and will hit another" which is of course putting another ball into play but might account for belief that it can be done at other times. Interestingly (?) a bit of research shows that up until 1964 a player could declare his ball lost but this option was removed in a rules update. I wonder why?

 

[duncan mackie]

Thanks for all the information - that was the majority view. However it is not unknown for a golfer to hit a ball into deep trouble and say "I declare that lost and will hit another" which is of course putting another ball into play but might account for belief that it can be done at other times. Interestingly (?) a bit of research shows that up until 1964 a player could declare his ball lost but this option was removed in a rules update. I wonder why?

If you look at the associated changes to rule 30 you will realise why.

Previously you were able to elect which ball to continue with when you had played a provisional. 1964 saw a rationalisation of such elections and associated options (it also saw a split between the R&A and USGA rules that took decades to be fully reversed....)

Hope this is of interest.

 

[atticusfinch]

The rules require holing out with the ball you teed of with unless substitution is allowed. No rule permits substitution of a ball that has been un-found for fewer than five minutes. The rules permit abandoning only a provisional ball. See R.27.

 

[Colin L]

.... No rule permits substitution of a ball that has been un-found for fewer than five minutes. The rules permit abandoning only a provisional ball. See R.27.

I must be misunderstanding what you mean.

Rule 27-1a permits the substitution of a ball under stroke and distance at any time.

Rule 28 permits the substition of a ball. It does not preclude the unplayable ball being "unfound" although it limits your options to stroke and distance.

 

[atticusfinch]

Yes, my keyboard got ahead of my brain. My bad.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I would say yes. In the scenario described he is too far from the tee to go back and play a provisional - so any ball he now hits from the tee is the ball in play and the original ball is 'dead' - whether or not it is found within 5mins of it originally being hit.

I recall they modified the wording of when you can play a provisional ball but effectively you can't leave the teeing ground (other than to get another ball or change club) if you want to play a provisional ball. Thus you can't return to the tee to play a provisional in the senario suggested - as stated above.

 

[duncan mackie]

I recall they modified the wording of when you can play a provisional ball but effectively you can't leave the teeing ground (other than to get another ball or change club) if you want to play a provisional ball. Thus you can't return to the tee to play a provisional in the senario suggested - as stated above.

There was no change to the rule but a decision clarifying it was introduced.

The decision;

Under Rule 27-2a, when is a player considered to have gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?

A.

A player will be considered to have gone forward to search when he has proceeded more than a short distance towards the place where his original ball is likely to be. As the purpose of Rule 27-2a is to save time, the player is*permitted* to go forward a short distance before determining that it would save time to return promptly to play a provisional ball. As a guideline, a player should be considered to have proceeded more than a short distance, and therefore to have gone forward to search, if he has proceeded more than approximately 50 yards. However, this guideline does not preclude a player from playing a provisional ball when he has proceeded more than a short distance for another specific purpose, such as to retrieve a ball or a different club to play a provisional ball, or to confer with a referee.

The nature of the hole, and original tee shot, will dictate when a player is provided with additional information that strongly suggests that it would save time if he played a provisional ball. For most situations it is contemplated (by the rule makers) that once you have gone 50 yds you will be able to see any new information and that a return trip of 100yds may well still be time saving.
If you hit it 300yds, are playing a course for the first time and have travelled 80 yds to the crest of a blind hole only to see that where you thought was fairway is actually rough the reference to 50yds in the decision wouldn't preclude you returning to the tee at that point to play a provisional.

 

[rulefan]

Note:
On the teeing ground, a substituted ball becomes the ball in play when a stroke is made at it.
Elsewhere, it becomes the ball in play when it it is dropped.

 

[backwoodsman]

Note:
On the teeing ground, a substituted ball becomes the ball in play when a stroke is made at it.
Elsewhere, it becomes the ball in play when it it is dropped.

See #8

 

[rulefan]

See #8

Oops. Just got back from holiday @4.00am and missed it by just skimming thru the posts.

 

[backwoodsman]

Oops. Just got back from holiday @4.00am and missed it by just skimming thru the posts.

In which case, you are excused ...