A serious post for a change......

[Smiffy]

I have been having a bit of a tough time of it at work recently, and this has culminated in me facing diciplinary action this week and receiving a written warning.
Basically it revolves around something called ITC which is tied in with the Financial Services Authority.
Whenever a customer purchases a car from us I am supposed to get them to sign a disclaimer to protect the company from future lawsuits, as they are signing to say that as far as they are concerned, we haven't pressurised them into buying an insurance product against their wishes.
FSA regulations have been in force for some time now, but these ITC forms are a fairly new thing.
Now for various reasons I failed to get 4 of these forms signed out of the 19 customers I sold cars to in July.
My manager said nothing to me about them until the 19th August, the day before I went on a weeks holiday. He just informed me that the company were looking on this as a case of "gross misconduct" and as such I would face a diciplinary meeting on my return to work, which was Tuesday of this week (31st). I admitted that I had made a mistake, apologised and promised that it wouldn't happen again.
I was then told that I would be told the companies decision yesterday (Friday) at a meeting to be held at 1.00pm.
This meeting went ahead, and I received my written warning but notified that I had the right to appeal.
In the time between the two meetings, I have studied the ITC website carefully where they quite clearly lay down strict guidlines as to how a diciplinary matter like this should be carried out.
It states, quite catagorically, that my manager, on first spotting errors or omissions should have notified me of them. He didn't. I was certainly aware that I had not got 4 of them signed, but the first I heard of it directly from him was when I was told I would be facing diciplinary proceedings.
It then goes on to say that he should email me about them and discuss with me a way of resolving the errors. I received no email and certainly didn't have a discussion with him.
Finally it states that I should be given 14 days to rectify said errors or omissions. This was never offered to me. In fact my manager, when questioned about it, denied that this option was even open to me!
I am basing my appeal on the fact that my manager failed to comply with the stated procedures taking away my opportunity to rectify the errors and therefore enabling me to avoid this written warning.
Thoughts????
Rob

 

[medwayjon]

Your appeal is totally sound and any written warning should be struck from your record according to the facts I have seen.

Hopefully it will get resolved.

I hope you are keeping a diary of every little thing as from what you have said, I can see there being a case of constructive dismissal for a solicitor to pursue at some point with the way they are going on towards you, its disgusting.

 

[Smiffy]

I found out (don't ask how John ) that they were initially going to give me a "final written warning" which would have stayed on my record for 18 months. I found this a little strange bearing in mind I have never received a "verbal" warning let alone a "first" written warning. The letter I was given was changed at the last minute to just give me a "written warning" which would stay on my record for 12 months instead.
Strange that it was changed at the 11th hour

 

[medwayjon]

Sounds like they havent got a scooby mate.

 

[Dodger]

Sounds like it's a kangaroo court Smiffy.....now where have I come across that before I wonder...?

 

[madandra]

Smiffy, when the ITC form became compulsory did you receive training on the importance of these forms and how to complete them correctly as here may be a bit of wriggle room there for you.


Yer managers a Tommy Tanker by the way.

 

[Smiffy]

Smiffy, when the ITC form became compulsory did you receive training on the importance of these forms and how to complete them correctly as here may be a bit of wriggle room there for you.


Yer managers a Tommy Tanker by the way.

I did receive some training, albeit basically "this is how you log on and this is the form. It's self explainatory really".
I knew that I had to get them signed, but in June I missed one and my manager, when made aware of it, just said "just scribble "declined" where the customer should have signed and we'll say they refused to sign it".
Subsequently, the real importance of them was diluted to a certain extent.
I was in no way made aware that failure to get them signed would lead to diciplinary action, certainly not to the extent of being classed as "gross misconduct".

 

[drawboy]

I wish you all the best Smiffy, I know exactly how you feel at the moment. I am expecting something similar myself shortly through no fault of my own, same as yourself.

 

[chrisd]

Sounds to me that you did all the right things If they are trying to nail you it's probably best to say and do all the right things but keep a diary of all and I mean all things that are said and done from now on. There is likely to be a case for constructive dismissal if they keep trying to push you but it's important that you don't load the gun for them.

Don't fall into the trap of failing to get another one signed and if a customer refuses to sign, refer it to your manager immediately.

If they want you out Smiffy they will do it pretty soon and frankly there's not much you can do to stop it happening but be ready and geared up if it does.


I wish you the best and coming from a Company owner its poacher turner gamekeeper but I treat my staff well!

Chris

I bought a new car 3 weeks ago and dont think a form signed of the type you describe would be enforceable anyway - it's not easy to sign your customer rights away these days!

 

[Ethan]

Sounds like this is being used as an excuse and there is another agenda at work.

 

[pokerjoke]

I understand your pain Smiffy as i know you and your manager dont get on.I also work in insurance and am regulated by the FSA,there is a major clampdown in insurance at the moment due to mis-selling and all paperwork should be filled out and signed at point of sale.This is very important imo as customers should not be ripped off.PPI has been mis-sold for years by banks and now they have to pay it back in most cases.There are procedures when it comes to warnings,the first as i know is verbal,then written,then final written,then contract terminated.Get it sorted quick as it will play on your mind,im sure it will work out good luck.

 

[Smiffy]

Sounds like this is being used as an excuse and there is another agenda at work.

Which is exactly what I suspect.
I hate my boss, he hates me. I'm not talking about my sales manager. He is fairly new and at first he was OK but he is now having his strings pulled by "the big boss" and is following the company line.
But the "big boss" is trying to get me out. No two ways about it. He can't just sack me, he has no grounds and I have been with the company too long. This annoys him. He got rid of our MOT tester because he had the balls to stand up to him which annoyed him further so he had him made redundant. Another mechanic came in, after 4 months he happened to stand up to the guy during a row. The "big boss" immediately went into his office and rang HO to find ways to get rid of him, which he did because the new mechanic had only been there a few months. He can't make me redundant as the site needs a salesman.
My feelings are that he wants to get shot of me and demote the sales manager to salesman to work there instead of me. I am the dog that he has been kicking for the last three years and he has got bored with me. He wants a new dog to kick.
I have put in an official request for a transfer to another branch within the company. I am hoping and praying that it comes to fruition.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Hope it all works out well for you mate.

I had a boss once who had it in for me and tried to use my "excessive sick absence" as the reason why part of the project we were working on was going tits-up and therefore closely scrutinised by her bosses. Fortunately when she pointed this out to them, they looked into it and asked her how it could be my fault when my "excessive sick absence" was actually due to me being rushed into hospital and having my gall bladder removed and the subsequent recuperation!! Suffice to say that when the doctor cleared me to return to work we went our seperate ways!!

Keep a note mate of any perceived bullying and all the best!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Document everything now that goes on. Dates, times places and if possible ad verabtim comments. My advice would be to have a word with citizens advice or even look at something like ACAS or CIPD websites and see if they have anything on constructive dismissal.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Agree with whats been said, but these days a job is a job, and if you have one,(and you want to keep it) it may be best to hold fire, bite your lip and keep your head down.

Make a fuss and they will do their best to terminate your employment.by fair means or foul, and you dont want to be unemployed pending a tribunal decision.

Its a game. play it by the rules, dont give them any Ammo.

In the meantime look for another job, coz you need to be happy in the one you have

And for gods sake stop wearing those white trousers to work you knob

Fragger

 

[vig]

As someone who deals with disciplinary issues.
Keep a copy of all conversations you have had, inc dates and times. I assume that you have a written record of the interview that took place.
Document any comments made inc witnesses.
Have you got proof that the manager told you to write "declined" on one.
Have any of your sales colleagues failed to get any signed and if so, have they also been warned?

Have you been warned or reprimanded before?

Lastly, do everything "by the book" then they won't have any amunition.

Give me a ring if you want a chat about it.

 

[Smiffy]

Another big thing that is puzzling me.
Written into my new commission structure is this "clause"...

"Additional bonus of 2% for each retail unit if full sales process and ITC completed"
No mention of how serious an offence it is if ITC isn't completed. It's almost as if they are giving you the choice!

When I returned from my weeks holiday on the 9th of August, one of the first things my sales manager did was sit down and go through my July commission with me.
He said that unfortunately he had had to deduct 2% off of the deals where I had failed to carry out ITC, he almost sounded apologetic.
No mention was made at that time with regard the seriousness of not completing ITC and no mention was made that it would going to a diciplinary. Would it not have been the ideal time to mention it?
I did not receive notice of any diciplinary action until Thursday 19th August, a whole 10 days later.
Something stinks doesn't it?

 

[bobmac]

Smiffy, it looks like your manager is trying to get rid of you, that's obvious.
His boss thinks the sun shines from all his orifices.
If they fire you and you appeal and win, you still have to work with them afterwards.
One possible way out is to speak to the area manager and give him the choice of
1. You leave without any fuss with a nice redundancy payout and a good reference
2. You will stay and fight and drag him through every court in the land.

Life is too short to be somewhere you dont enjoy.

How about combining your love of motorbikes and your skill in selling and sell motorbikes?

 

[Smiffy]

Smiffy, it looks like your manager is trying to get rid of you, that's obvious.
His boss thinks the sun shines from all his orifices.
If they fire you and you appeal and win, you still have to work with them afterwards.
One possible way out is to speak to the area manager and give him the choice of
1. You leave without any fuss with a nice redundancy payout and a good reference
2. You will stay and fight and drag him through every court in the land.

Life is too short to be somewhere you dont enjoy.

How about combining your love of motorbikes and your skill in selling and sell motorbikes?

It's not my sales manager Bob, it's the git above him. Remember my post a couple of weeks ago "Does anybody else hate their manager?". It was him I was referring to, and I think this is a knock on effect from the issues that prompted that post.

Another thing...prior to going on holiday to Forest Pines on Monday 3rd August, I had in fact pointed out to my sales manager that I had missed these four forms during July. He knew that I hadn't done them. So again, it begs the question...why wasn't the seriousness of this pointed out to me then? Or at least on my return on the 9th August?
And he can't say he couldn't get hold of me to discuss it. He knew where I was, he had my mobile number and in fact contacted me at Forest Pines to find out where an aerial was for a car he had sold in my absence!

 

[Nikki]

My advice is that you keep this very well documented and find yourself a good lawyer in case it all goes pearshaped...