A question for JustOne

[HawkeyeMS]

Page 70 of the new Mag - flight control.

Isn't this advice ignoring the new ball flight laws?

Sure it might get the shape but the ball is going to start at the target where the clubface is pointing which is either gonna send you straight at the obstacle you are trying to go round or cause you to miss the target right or left depending if you're hitting the fade or draw?

 

[JustOne]

I haven't seen the new mag yet... but if it's about going round an obstacle and the clubface is practically pointing at the obstacle at impact then you're going to hit it!

It wouldn't surprise me if it was wrong as most golf instruction for the past 17yrs that I've been playing has been wrong.

What's on the cover of the mag? I'll see if I can pick up a copy in a bit.

 

[Pants]

Are you saying that you're not a subscriber

 

[bladeplayer]

It wouldn't surprise me if it was wrong as most golf instruction for the past 17yrs that I've been playing has been wrong.

.

Thats a very strange idea to have , do you mean instruction for everybody or just amatuers? , surely the instruction that Rory , Ryo, Jason Day, Ricky F, the elite amatuers etc cant be that wrong? Mayb im taking what you mean up wrong .. apologies if i am

 

[Scouser]

Just read it ...I see what you are saying but it doesn't say this is how to hit around an obstruction it just says to hit a fade or a draw...?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It doesn't say how to hit around an obstruction no, but it does say the club face should point at the target and your body aims left or right depending on which way you want to hit it. This will result in the ball missing the target according to the new laws. Also, if there were an obstacle, using this info, most people would line up to the left or right of the obstacle they are going round and have the clubface pointing at the flag which is likely to be directly behind the obstacle which would result in hitting the obstacle.

To me, this is the same teaching I have always been told i.e. The ball will start on the line of your body which it won't.

At worst, the article is wrong, at best it is very misleading.

It's the one with Darren Clark on the cover JustOne

 

[Scouser]

This will result in the ball missing the target according to the new laws.

Sorry Hawk I understand what you are saying now.

Maybe this is why I always miss the target!

 

[JustOne]

Page 70 of the new Mag - flight control.

Isn't this advice ignoring the new ball flight laws?

Sure it might get the shape but the ball is going to start at the target where the clubface is pointing which is either gonna send you straight at the obstacle you are trying to go round or cause you to miss the target right or left depending if you're hitting the fade or draw?

Ok, I have it in front of me... £3.70 lighter in pocket...... yeh, it's total rubbish.

Part (1) rolling the wrists is a no-no, if you've set up properly why would you need to roll the clubface, how can you consistently do it? Probably the worst move in golf and yet the most widely taught.
Fading by cutting across it is also wrong, that's not the feeling you want with a fade... it should be your normal golf shot feeling (you should only have one), expedited with the clubface open to the path.

Part (2) The draw is wrong, that's a recipe for a pull-draw or a pull-hook if you roll your wrists
The fade would work although it's a push-fade shot. There is no shot called a fade, only a ball flight, and they are pull-slice, pull-fade, push-fade and push-slice.

Part (3) Higher flights.. they are not achieved by putting the ball forward and weight to the right... that's what causes fat shots and scooping (..thin shots galore!). They are achieved by a small (5-10°) spine tilt away from the target at impact. He also says "the extra clubhead speed"... well where the feck did that come from? ..clubhead speed from nowwhere! that's pretty cool.

Part (4) the punch shot... it's speculative at best, bit weird that you're going to punch a shot and create backspin whilst ALSO taking an extra club and swinging softer

It's all shocking but pretty normal to get taught the wrong way like this by a club pro, I'd like to blame the publisher who is spreading this tripe...(LOL).

I wonder if Tesco's will gimme my money back...

 

[Scouser]

It's all shocking but pretty normal to get taught the wrong way like this by a club pro, I'd like to blame the publisher who is spreading this tripe...(LOL).

I wonder if Tesco's will gimme my money back...

Awaits GM's response :rofl:


And why did you not just stand in Tesco and read it

 

[Region3]

Fading by cutting across it is also wrong, that's not the feeling you want with a fade... it should be your normal golf shot feeling (you should only have one), expedited with the clubface open to the path.

But if a pull-fade is a legitimate shot, how do you play it without cutting across the ball?
If you're advocating a push fade by aligning way left, how do you keep it low if need be?

There is no shot called a fade, only a ball flight, and they are pull-slice, pull-fade, push-fade and push-slice.

So what would you call a flight that starts bang on the target line then moves right (or left)?

He also says "the extra clubhead speed"... well where the feck did that come from? ..clubhead speed from nowwhere! that's pretty cool.

Just a guess, but maybe he's saying because the club travels further to get to the ball, all the while accelerating.

 

[SocketRocket]

I totally agree with JustOne. The article is complete tosh and his explanations of what will happen are correct.

 

[JustOne]

But if a pull-fade is a legitimate shot, how do you play it without cutting across the ball?
If you're advocating a push fade by aligning way left, how do you keep it low if need be?

Is there a reason why you'd opt for a harder to hit pull-fade instead of a push-fade?

The guy said to aim left, the ball then starts right of where you are aligned, that's a push and that is the correct way to play the shot (as I said above).

So what would you call a flight that starts bang on the target line then moves right (or left)?

It depends how it's hit angle of attack etc, so it's a hard flight to diagnose, personally I'd call it a push-fade as I'd likely be setting up to hit it that way (and the ball is always moving away from the target) but others may set up for a pull and hit that shot shape with a slight out-to-in path, ball flight laws have it as a straight-fade. As I said previously if you are opening your stance it's likely a push.

Just a guess, but maybe he's saying because the club travels further to get to the ball, all the while accelerating.

Guess? That's reserved for teaching pros

I could take an educated 'guess' too and say that the club does not gain any extra speed if you lean back as you'll create less parametric acceleration because the pivot will already be too far back... but other than that I'd stick with "It'll probably lead to fat/thin shots".

Also if you are on the right foot with the ball forwards there will be reduced weightshift, if you find any evidence of it creating more speed I'll eat my words... and buy you a coffee at the next forum meet

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It would be interesting to get a response from the guy who wrote the piece? Maybe Mike could arrange this?

 

[Region3]

Is there a reason why you'd opt for a harder to hit pull-fade instead of a push-fade?

If I've understood what I've read properly, to keep the ball lower, as the active loft of the club will be less with a closed face (pull-fade) as opposed to an open one (push-fade).

It depends how it's hit angle of attack etc, so it's a hard flight to diagnose, personally I'd call it a push-fade as I'd likely be setting up to hit it that way (and the ball is always moving away from the target) but others may set up for a pull and hit that shot shape with a slight out-to-in path, ball flight laws have it as a straight-fade. As I said previously if you are opening your stance it's likely a push.

It was only hypothetical. I have nothing in the way of the shot so I'm aiming dead straight, trying to hit it straight. The ball starts off great, bang on target, on the line of my feet/hips/shoulders but then curves off to the right and finishes just off the green to the right.
I was just curious what you'd call it (apart from rubbish). Obviously I never hit that shot



You know I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand.

 

[SocketRocket]

It was only hypothetical. I have nothing in the way of the shot so I'm aiming dead straight, trying to hit it straight. The ball starts off great, bang on target, on the line of my feet/hips/shoulders but then curves off to the right and finishes just off the green to the right.
I was just curious what you'd call it (apart from rubbish). Obviously I never hit that shot

You know I'm not arguing with you, just trying to understand.

Dont matter what you call it the ball is starting straight and fading, or if the curve to the right is big it's a slice.

Your clubface is square to target at impact and your swingpath is cutting across from right to left.

 

[JustOne]

It would be interesting to get a response from the guy who wrote the piece? Maybe Mike could arrange this?

Picture the scene, you own a nice Ferrari and it's brakes need doing, in a car mag a mechanic says that you can fit some Ford ones to it (he doesn't mention they might knacker the discs) and they'll certainly keep it on the road for a bit... do you fit the Ford ones?

That's what the magazine content implies. If you hit a (pull) draw as prescribed where you close yourself to the target what happens if you don't get the draw? you're in the trees on the right, what if you close the face a little? you've snap-hooked it, that's just the beginnig though, because you've closed your stance and slightly turned your back away from the target you'll find it REALLY hard to make a full turn in your backswing (as it feels incredibly weird) without the full turn you lose power and it even causes you to swing more left (over the top) as the turn isn't complete... that'll mean slicing and real duff hooks... it's a car crash just waiting to happen.

I'm not sure it would make any difference but these poor teaching practices are what we currently pay for when we visit our pros. I wonder how much I'd have paid to get wrong info from that guy?

As it happens I like this place a lot, on other forums they are clearly more switched on to what is right/wrong. GolfMagic has people like James Ridyard who works with John Graham who in turn helped pioneer the D-plane with Brian Manzella, GolfWrx has the guys from golfevolution and umpteen great players including world longdrive champ Monte Scheinblum and numerous mini tour players, then there's the sandtrap which has numerous experts and contacts within the pro tour ranks who post things about power accumulators and p1, p2, p3 etc.. pivots, hip stalls, d-plane, pro trackman stats and every swing theory you can think of and yet when I post something here it's as if I'm talking out of my a*se...

oops, did that sound like a mini rant? sorry 'bout that... NURSE!!!!.... I need toilet!

erm, I'm thinking black are the best colour Galvin Greens.. yes/no?

 

[JustOne]

Your clubface is square to target at impact and your swingpath is cutting across from right to left.

I'd tend to agree. Do you have shallow divots pointing left?

 

[G1BB0]

you didnt mention my power fade

 

[MetalMickie]

Maybe it's because I'm relatively new round here but I feel I must be missing the point. PGA pro's & their teaching methods are being dismissed by a mid-handicapper who, by his own admission, plays less than once a week!!!
Is it just me or has the world gone mad?

Stack & tilt my a**e!

 

[JustOne]

Maybe it's because I'm relatively new round here but I feel I must be missing the point. PGA pro's & their teaching methods are being dismissed by a mid-handicapper who, by his own admission, plays less than once a week!!!
Is it just me or has the world gone mad?

Stack & tilt my a**e!

Moi? How often should someone play to make you happy?