A different handicap question...

[Matty]

There are frequently threads on here complaining about bandits on one extreme and congratulating those who have had a great round and got a handicap cut at the other extreme.

So, I was wondering, and even more so after a recent competition that I played in, how many times a year do you personally expect to play better than your handicap?

And in a competition of say 50 participants, how many of those would you expect to post scores better than their handicap?

To give a little background, I played recently in a Stableford winter competition. Winter rules in place were all bunkers were GUR and through the green you can lift, clean and place you ball within 6 inches, not nearer the hole. I was very pleased with my round overall, and despite a blob hole tallied 18 points. Despite this 9 players scored better than me when the entire field consisted of 26 players. Top score 23, 2nd 22, 3 ties on 21, 3 ties on 20 and a 19 got the prizes. Now, I'm not too bothered about not winning a prize as none of them were really to my liking anyway but I was a little annoyed to have felt I played well and yet been roundly beaten by so many in such a small field. So, now I'm wondering if the entire club have inflated handicaps due to us having no handicap committee.

 

[guest100718]

With rules like that in place id be dissapointed not to score 20 plus points.

 

[bladeplayer]

There are frequently threads on here complaining about bandits on one extreme and congratulating those who have had a great round and got a handicap cut at the other extreme.

So, I was wondering, and even more so after a recent competition that I played in, how many times a year do you personally expect to play better than your handicap?

And in a competition of say 50 participants, how many of those would you expect to post scores better than their handicap?

To give a little background, I played recently in a Stableford winter competition. Winter rules in place were all bunkers were GUR and through the green you can lift, clean and place you ball within 6 inches, not nearer the hole. I was very pleased with my round overall, and despite a blob hole tallied 18 points. Despite this 9 players scored better than me when the entire field consisted of 26 players. Top score 23, 2nd 22, 3 ties on 21, 3 ties on 20 and a 19 got the prizes. Now, I'm not too bothered about not winning a prize as none of them were really to my liking anyway but I was a little annoyed to have felt I played well and yet been roundly beaten by so many in such a small field. So, now I'm wondering if the entire club have inflated handicaps due to us having no handicap committee.

well il give ya an idea around our place mate . 13 hole winter league , placing everywhere , bunkers in play full course , 3/4 handicap .. 36pts won it last week , most weeks its 33 or so ..

its not over surprising tho esp with placing everywhere , there was a thread on the lines of scoring better in the winter on here a while ago and if i remember i think most said they score better in the winter .
I take it it was a 9 hole comp you were playing , if youd kept the blob off you would have only had 2 better than you , the margins are as fine as that

 

[Foxholer]

You didn't mention it being 9=hole course/comp!

Taking Bunkers out of play does distort figures. Playing wel - so avoiding bunkers doesn't get 'rewarded' as much. Same logic pplies to Pick/Place in rough - ventures into deep rough can actually result in a tee-ed up lie rather than a buried one.

These style comps aren't for comparison with handicaps. They favour the Wild willys rather than the Steady Eddies. Just enjoy the day out.

 

[bladeplayer]

You didn't mention it being 9=hole course/comp!

Top score 23 ? with 19 pts in the prizes ... i know as you say i shouldnt assume but id hope it was

 

[Deleted member 17920]

If the course is going to play a lot easier with no bunkers been in play a lot of the field will play a totally different game to normal so I wouldn't be surprised if the scoring was way more than normal.

I would say most golfers score better than their handicap around 2 or 3 times a season on a good year. The ones that do get below it are the 15-28 handicaps that are normally flying down. We have had a junior that is playing in all the main comps come down from 20 to 10 this year through beating css on a regular basis.

 

[duncan mackie]

1. you can't meaningfully judge stableford scores without knowing the par and SSS of the tees/course played - not at all.
2. the handicap system expects roughly 1/3 of the field will score to their buffer zone or better; it has no real concept of 'beating your handicap' although you would expect a higher proportion of cat 1 players being better - a lower proportion of cat 3/4 doing so but they may do so by more!

as others have commented, the conditions you played under are hardly appropriate for handicap performance judgement - which is why the authorities don't permit handicap adustments beased on them either!

 

[pbrown7582]

23points isn't an uncommon winning score under such conditions.
In normal conditions you are only expected to play to buffer approx 4 times out of 10.

 

[mcbroon]

At our place I'd say that, on average, around 15% of the field in any given comp hits buffer or better, so even if you beat your h/c, you're not guaranteed to win.

Personally, I expect to play to or beat my h/c maybe a third of the time. In the season just past, I played 14 comps, buffered twice, got 8 x 0.1 and 4 cuts. I think that's fairly typical.

 

[DCB]

So, now I'm wondering if the entire club have inflated handicaps due to us having no handicap committee.

How can your club have no handicap committee. It's a responsibility of the club to appoint such a committee to administer the handicaps under the CONGU system.

 

[Matty]

Sorry everyone - you are quite right in your assumptions and I should have mentioned that it was a 9 hole comp.

In answer to Duncan:
1/ Par is 33 and SSS is 30 from the tees we were using in the comp.
2/ The three people in my group (played 3 balls) made buffer and so did the 9 above me so 12/26 made buffer as a minimum. That's closer to 1/2 than a 1/3.

I guess I should accept and move on based on the above but it seems strange to me the difference of opinion about handicaps, already in the thread above one person expects to play to handicap a few times a year while another persons expect to hit handicap a third of the time. Now without knowing how many times they play that is difficult to interpret but it could be wildly different!

 

[garyinderry]

no bunkers means you can smash it at the green without much fear. at this time of the year if you hit the green it sticks pretty much no matter how far out you are!

no surprised by those scores at all.

 

[Twire]

If it's par 33 and SSS 30 then 21 points would be playing to handicap. With bunkers out of play and prefered lies, I would expect high scores.

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry everyone - you are quite right in your assumptions and I should have mentioned that it was a 9 hole comp.

In answer to Duncan:
1/ Par is 33 and SSS is 30 from the tees we were using in the comp.
2/ The three people in my group (played 3 balls) made buffer and so did the 9 above me so 12/26 made buffer as a minimum. That's closer to 1/2 than a 1/3.

I guess I should accept and move on based on the above but it seems strange to me the difference of opinion about handicaps, already in the thread above one person expects to play to handicap a few times a year while another persons expect to hit handicap a third of the time. Now without knowing how many times they play that is difficult to interpret but it could be wildly different!

I think it's interpretation rather than fundamental differences - your words don't really match up with the posts in this thread for that reason, and contribute to debate rather than understanding.

1. Whilst the expectation is around 1/3 the nature of statistics, and taking into account a higher proportion of cat 3-4 players, a more accurate representation would be that between a 1/4 and 1/2 of the players would play to their buffer of better - in this case that would be 18/17 points + for cat 3/4. 12/26 would fit that fine.
2. The proportions change significantly for handicap categories, over and above the difference created by the buffers - which is why there are different adjustments per stroke when beating handicap.
3. Most threads on the subject get significantly confused by the concept of 'playing to handicap' in the first place! The reality is that the system is self correcting in that if players don't meet the expected performance levels (either way) they get adjusted until they do!!!
4. If you don't have a handicap committee you don't have CONGU handicaps, as mentioned already.

 

[Matty]

4. If you don't have a handicap committee you don't have CONGU handicaps, as mentioned already.

We have a committee of 4 people, one of whom has the title of handicap secretary. Handicaps are updated using HDID so I suspect (or maybe hope) we are satisfying the criteria. Perhaps I am misleading you all because it isn't a separate entity and isn't called "The Handicap Committee" in my mind.

Anyway, I think you have addressed my concern in that many of those that finished in the top 9 frequently do well in the summer competitions and I was a somewhat disappointed with my finishing position despite being pleased with my score. What has been said above sounds like (despite having read in another magazine that winter go,f adds 4 shots per 18 holes) that I finished about where I would expect. So far this week I've been wondering if I should bother with the competitions at all next year when I seem to see the same names near the top all the time.

 

[louise_a]

I have bettered my handicap 4 or 5 times since we started playing only 12 hole comps under winter conditions, prefered lies and no risk of an handicap change certainly makes playing easier.

 

[Matty]

I have bettered my handicap 4 or 5 times since we started playing only 12 hole comps under winter conditions, prefered lies and no risk of an handicap change certainly makes playing easier.

It must just be me that finds the winter game harder than summer then! Maybe I take too many risks in the summer months rather than playing sensibly!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I just go out to beat my handicap every time I play. If I do or get close then a cut or a top three finish will look after itself. If others come in better than me nowt I can do but salute their good round.

 

[Lump]

At this time of year if I don't play better than handicap I'm disappointed. The course plays as easy as it ever will. Flag hunting allows for low scores thanks to soft greens.
Last 3 rounds have been 30,31 & 32 points over 14 holes. All better than handicap.

 

[palindromicbob]

10 hole stableford in a society end of November. 40 players placing though the green and course with winter tees. 27 points from a 13 handicapper won it. Joint 25 for 2nd and 3rd.


I came last with 10 lol. Talk about a howler. 4 blobs, 4 single pointers and a limp after slipping on a slope and twisting my knee sums that day. Thankfully lots of whiskey after made me soon forget about it all.