5th Division for English Football

[Liverbirdie]

For me it's either all Scottish teams or no Scottish teams if a UK league of sorts evolves, allowing only 2 to leave because they have a bigger fanbase and more money isn't a good enough justifcation. For me as an Aberdeen 'fan' losing the Old Firm from the league is not good despite the religious intolerance that blights those clubs (most of them probably never been near a church), the standards would fall even further, Aberdeen and Hearts would become the new dominant pair instead of OF. We're soon building a new out of town stadium at Aberdeen, need to fill it sometimes!
I would be perfectly happy for a club like Aberdeen to play League One or possibly even Championship at a UK level, they have the same kind of support and resources as clubs like Ipswich, Norwich, Burnley, Bournemouth etc etc.
You can't stop change of course.

Spot on.

I don't seem to agree with most of the English on here........

1. Celtic and Rangers would bring increased interest in the lower leagues, if they had to fight through them. If Barnsley played any of them it would be a 30k gate, instead of a 12k gate. Albeit it would only be for 1-2 seasons "on the way through".

2. Don't discount Sky's marketing - whatever league they would be in, it would still be a big story.

3. I would genuinely hope that the other Scottish teams are also given the option. For those not wanting it, it may become like the league of Wales, which is semi-pro.

4. Would this then encourage a British league? If it did you might then get franchises happening in Irish football, more to represent a county rather than a city or town (not a fan of franchises, BTW). I remember it was mooted that Wimbledon would move to Dublin, but still play in the English league (what an away match that would be).

5. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee united would add to whatever leagues they found themselves in, and I would have a premier league, championship, division 1, then a north and south league, as per years ago.

I'd welcome a British league (or even a British cup to replace the league cup), but wouldn't welcome a European league.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Spot on.

I don't seem to agree with most of the English on here........

1. Celtic and Rangers would bring increased interest in the lower leagues, if they had to fight through them. If Barnsley played any of them it would be a 30k gate, instead of a 12k gate. Albeit it would only be for 1-2 seasons "on the way through".

2. Don't discount Sky's marketing - whatever league they would be in, it would still be a big story

LB, you seem to be out of touch with fans of EFL clubs. The question of Scottish clubs being involved has been asked before and they are not interested.

Agreed the "away" attendance may increase but not the "home", Celtic and Rangers are not a "pull".

As for the TV deal being improved; I doubt it , after all Sky pay only peanuts for Scottish (i.e. Celtic & Rangers) at the moment so why would they increase it now.

 

[Grogger]

Spot on.

I don't seem to agree with most of the English on here........

1. Celtic and Rangers would bring increased interest in the lower leagues, if they had to fight through them. If Barnsley played any of them it would be a 30k gate, instead of a 12k gate. Albeit it would only be for 1-2 seasons "on the way through".

2. Don't discount Sky's marketing - whatever league they would be in, it would still be a big story.

3. I would genuinely hope that the other Scottish teams are also given the option. For those not wanting it, it may become like the league of Wales, which is semi-pro.

4. Would this then encourage a British league? If it did you might then get franchises happening in Irish football, more to represent a county rather than a city or town (not a fan of franchises, BTW). I remember it was mooted that Wimbledon would move to Dublin, but still play in the English league (what an away match that would be).

5. Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee united would add to whatever leagues they found themselves in, and I would have a premier league, championship, division 1, then a north and south league, as per years ago.

I'd welcome a British league (or even a British cup to replace the league cup), but wouldn't welcome a European league.

Oakwell only holds 23,000

I don't think they'd draw that many more fans in until they reached the PL. I'd rather see my team play a Yorkshire rival than Celtic or Rangers plus in the lower leagues they still wouldn't attract players that anyone would want to see. They'd be able to afford good ones but most players are hardly going to step down to league 2 just to play for Celtic. Be totally different if they made it to the PL as they'd attract a lot of good players but they'd have to get there first.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Oakwell only holds 23,000

I don't think they'd draw that many more fans in until they reached the PL. I'd rather see my team play a Yorkshire rival than Celtic or Rangers plus in the lower leagues they still wouldn't attract players that anyone would want to see. They'd be able to afford good ones but most players are hardly going to step down to league 2 just to play for Celtic. Be totally different if they made it to the PL as they'd attract a lot of good players but they'd have to get there first.

Aye...Bournemouth would also struggle to cope with the 20,000 away traveling Rangers and Celtic fans.oo:

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Aye...Bournemouth would also struggle to cope with the 20,000 away traveling Rangers and Celtic fans.oo:

My word you really have got a down on Bournemouth, haven't you?

In any event neither could any club in Scotland accommodate 20,000 Rangers or Celtic fans and, in fact, do not have ro.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No club would accomodate 20k away fans. That would not leave enough space for their own. Most PL clubs have space for around 4-5k away fans. Having more away fans wanting tickets than that is irrelevant as they just can't get them.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

My word you really have got a down on Bournemouth, haven't you?

In any event neither could any club in Scotland accommodate 20,000 Rangers or Celtic fans and, in fact, do not have ro.

Team in the EPL with a ground capacity of 11,000 is desperately poor. IMO.

Lord Tyron......Then why are we seeing half empty grounds for EPL matches.
If clubs become reliant on TV money instead of spectators they will find themselves on the slippery slope. IMO

 

[User62651]

Lord Tyron......Then why are we seeing half empty grounds for EPL matches.
If clubs become reliant on TV money instead of spectators they will find themselves on the slippery slope. IMO

Common scenario is that those empty seats are actually sold seats as they're held by a season tickets holder and on the day that person has decided not to attend for whatever reason.
Bournemouth are diddy but they got up there through merit and did manage to stay up when bigger clubs like Newcastle and Villa didn't. Nice for their fans to enjoy the big time for a while, bit like Blackpool did a few years back. The financial rewards of the EPL are astounding, no two ways about it, seems the rest of Europe is in a flap about that too.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure which grounds are half empty. Attendences are strong across the board. Some places, like Sunderland for example will be below capacity as a/ the ground is really bigger than they need and b/ the football on offer is pretty grim. Most are pretty full most weeks though. I don't think home fans would suddenly flood to matches with Celtic or Rangers in them though, they just are not a big draw, and most away ends are already full pretty much every game so the situation does not alter. Maxfli also makes a good point about season ticket holders, individuals or corporate, who don't go to every match and so seats are empty although they are sold.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I'm not sure which grounds are half empty. Attendences are strong across the board. Some places, like Sunderland for example will be below capacity as a/ the ground is really bigger than they need and b/ the football on offer is pretty grim. Most are pretty full most weeks though. I don't think home fans would suddenly flood to matches with Celtic or Rangers in them though, they just are not a big draw, and most away ends are already full pretty much every game so the situation does not alter. Maxfli also makes a good point about season ticket holders, individuals or corporate, who don't go to every match and so seats are empty although they are sold.

I get that, but some of the grounds I saw were barely half full. This results in a poor atmosphere.
Are the season ticket holders sitting at home or in the pub watching the match on the telly?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I get that, but some of the grounds I saw were barely half full. This results in a poor atmosphere.
Are the season ticket holders sitting at home or in the pub watching the match on the telly?

The lowest percentage of capacity so far this season is Hull City at 82% and five clubs have been 99% full, even Sunderland mentioned by Lord T are 89% full. Bournemouth 99.1%.

Would appear that EPL clubs don't have too much to worry about on that score.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I think the Rangers Celtic thing is a bit of a red herring and what will happen is that they will put the development/reserve/B teams from the Premier League in there. To just reduce further the chances of small teams getting promoted to the big time and further increase the exposure for the big teams that draw in viewers/advertisers.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I think the Rangers Celtic thing is a bit of a red herring and what will happen is that they will put the development/reserve/B teams from the Premier League in there. To just reduce further the chances of small teams getting promoted to the big time and further increase the exposure for the big teams that draw in viewers/advertisers.

Have you seen the attendances from last night's EPL Trophy games involving those Under 23 teams?

Would not suggest that there is any appetite amongst the fans of League 1 & 2 clubs to see these so called rising stars.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The lowest percentage of capacity so far this season is Hull City at 82% and five clubs have been 99% full, even Sunderland mentioned by Lord T are 89% full. Bournemouth 99.1%.

Would appear that EPL clubs don't have too much to worry about on that score.

99.1% full with a capacity of 11,000 in the EPL.........well done Bournemouth.
Early days this season, you don't happen to have last seasons full % by any chance?

 

[Liverbirdie]

LB, you seem to be out of touch with fans of EFL clubs. The question of Scottish clubs being involved has been asked before and they are not interested.

Agreed the "away" attendance may increase but not the "home", Celtic and Rangers are not a "pull".

As for the TV deal being improved; I doubt it , after all Sky pay only peanuts for Scottish (i.e. Celtic & Rangers) at the moment so why would they increase it now.

Your right mate, I'm not in agreement.......with the armchair fans, sorry EFL fans.

No doubt, if Barnsley played Celtic, 10,000 bhoys would be in attendance, but I also think that the home fans would also be boosted by another 8-10 thousand guest100718's , just like when drawn against a large prem club in the FA cup.

Doesnt make it right or wrong, but I'd certainly like it.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Oakwell only holds 23,000

I don't think they'd draw that many more fans in until they reached the PL. I'd rather see my team play a Yorkshire rival than Celtic or Rangers plus in the lower leagues they still wouldn't attract players that anyone would want to see. They'd be able to afford good ones but most players are hardly going to step down to league 2 just to play for Celtic. Be totally different if they made it to the PL as they'd attract a lot of good players but they'd have to get there first.

You surprise me, the last time I went there was only a paddock behind the goal, and I thought it held about 25k then, and I know its been replaced by a large stand. I stand corrected.

Some would and with Yorkshire football generally in the lower reaches, as we speak, there must be a few derbies a year, but still think that Rangers at Hillsborough would be a 40k plus gate, and would attract a lot of interest.

I can still remember the hype from when Leeds played Rangers back when Leeds where in Europe, more so than if Leeds were just playing, say, Porto.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

LB, do you think Rangers and Celtic still have the same cache though? Back then, yes, I don't think so now.

 

[Liverbirdie]

LB, do you think Rangers and Celtic still have the same cache though? Back then, yes, I don't think so now.

I think Rangers spent all that cache, didn't they?:whoo:

Maybe not as big as then, but still big.

Have Ajax, St. Etienne, Valencia got as big a pull as 10-20 years ago? No, but they are still big clubs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

There are lots of big clubs with history that have lost their lustre. All the club's you mentioned are in the same boat. They don't excite opposition fans from other countries as they once would have. Plenty in the championship in that category as well.

 

[Grogger]

You surprise me, the last time I went there was only a paddock behind the goal, and I thought it held about 25k then, and I know its been replaced by a large stand. I stand corrected.

Some would and with Yorkshire football generally in the lower reaches, as we speak, there must be a few derbies a year, but still think that Rangers at Hillsborough would be a 40k plus gate, and would attract a lot of interest.

I can still remember the hype from when Leeds played Rangers back when Leeds where in Europe, more so than if Leeds were just playing, say, Porto.

Suppose it's just preference at the end of the day? I'm not saying they wouldn't pull in the crowds but I'm not sure many grounds outside of the PL would be at capacity. Theres a few factors that grounds aren't full and ticket prices are the big one but that's a debate for another time I suppose?

I dont think it'd ever happen. Celtic are back in the CL now and there's no one in the SPL to stop them at the present time so I think they'd stay in Scotland for the foreseeable future.

I knew what you meant about Barnsley I was just being pedantic so I apologise mate :thup: