Zero Torque Putters? Is it hype or a thing?

[RichA]

How does that compare with having to co-ordinate those body parts to deliver a square face at the precise 1% of the stroke its needed compared to 99% of the stroke when its not?

Squaring the face should just happen naturally with an arc if you're set up properly.
Keeping the face square at the top of your backswing has to involve moving either your hands and wrists (which I believe is bad in putting) or rotating your shoulders in the wrong direction to maintain that plane.
I'm not an expert; just trying to figure out the biomechanics of it.

 

[WirralC]

Squaring the face should just happen naturally with an arc if you're set up properly.
Keeping the face square at the top of your backswing has to involve moving either your hands and wrists (which I believe is bad in putting) or rotating your shoulders in the wrong direction to maintain that plane.
I'm not an expert; just trying to figure out the biomechanics of it.

In my mind I move less of my body when I try to keep it straight, but maybe I'm using more of my body to keep it straight?? Who knows but the very simple logic for me is I could probably hit a snooker ball straight with an arced stroke but it's a lot more reliable / easier with a straight one. Each to their own I suppose

 

[Springveldt]

I'm sure a £500 lab putter would improve my strokes gained putting by 0.005 a round. I refuse to even try one though for the same reason I won't wear loudmouth trousers.

Because you might like them?

 

[Golf is fun]

I don't accept it's impossible for a human being to move a putter back in a straight line, I've literally just done it.

It's not impossible, it's just that anything other than moving it in an arc is fighting nature, which in my opinion makes it harder than it needs to be.

 

[Golf is fun]

In my mind I move less of my body when I try to keep it straight, but maybe I'm using more of my body to keep it straight?? Who knows but the very simple logic for me is I could probably hit a snooker ball straight with an arced stroke but it's a lot more reliable / easier with a straight one. Each to their own I suppose

A snooker cue is a different type of implement though, you're sliding it, not swinging it.

Imagine a pendulum in a grandfather clock, you could move the top attachment point of it left and right in coordination with the pendulum swinging to keep the motion linear, or you could just leave it fixed and let the pendulum describe an arc. The latter is far simpler, and this is only in a single plane of motion, whereas golf stroke would be in multiple planes.

 

[WirralC]

A snooker cue is a different type of implement though, you're sliding it, not swinging it.

Imagine a pendulum in a grandfather clock, you could move the top attachment point of it left and right in coordination with the pendulum swinging to keep the motion linear, or you could just leave it fixed and let the pendulum describe an arc. The latter is far simpler, and this is only in a single plane of motion, whereas golf stroke would be in multiple planes.

But that’s the point about the snooker cue I’m trying to make, I think it’s easier to hit something straight with that sliding / straight line movement.

It’s easier to create an arc in some situations, but the question is is that better when you want to hit something straight? If I move your ball an inch either way it’s not going straight, move ‘mine’ and it is

 

[Golf is fun]

But that’s the point about the snooker cue I’m trying to make, I think it’s easier to hit something straight with that sliding / straight line movement.

It’s easier to create an arc in some situations, but the question is is that better when you want to hit something straight? If I move your ball an inch either way it’s not going straight, move ‘mine’ and it is

The theory you have is 100% right, it's easier to hit something straight by moving the object you want to hit it with in a straight line.

The part that complicates it is how the human body moves. Ignoring the vertical arc for now and just focusing on the horizontal arc your arms make when performing a putting motion, in order to make the putter path form a straight line you arms would have to move out away form your body on the backswing, then back towards your body, then exactly at impact move back away from your body. That is to say if viewed directly from a above your hands would have to trace a shallow "V" shape, whereas naturally the arms would describe shallow upside down "U" shape.

I don't think anyone actually swings a putter on a perfectly straight line, because anatomically it's not easy, some people have very shallow arcs which is usually considered straight back and through.

 

[RichA]

But that’s the point about the snooker cue I’m trying to make, I think it’s easier to hit something straight with that sliding / straight line movement.

It’s easier to create an arc in some situations, but the question is is that better when you want to hit something straight? If I move your ball an inch either way it’s not going straight, move ‘mine’ and it is

206 bones and 350 joints. We just aren't made for accurate 2-dimensional motion.

 

[Imurg]

I haven't paid much attention to these so I know naff all about them.
What's different about these compared to a normal centre shaft putter..?
Extreme heel and toe weighting?

 

[garyinderry]

 

[Neilds]

What I found interesting with that video was the lack of science speak to describe what is happening with their putter and the difference with the PXG putter. Does this mean they like to keep things simple for the viewer or they don't know the science? It made me think they make a putter and just tinker with the weights to make it 'balanced' and there is no formula or anything to work things out.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

My understanding from the lad who has one now, is that there is a distinct lack of twisting effect when he puts now. He doesn't feel as if the club is trying to twist or turn at impact.

As far as the sales pitch, of course every manufacturer is going to big up their products, but IF there was nothing in this, why is all the other putter manufacturers now producing similar path products?
I have no want for one, I don't like the breeze block mallet look. I love my Rife Cayman Brac in tropical finish which works perfectly for me, but that doesn't mean to say my putter would suit everyone and whatever pleases your eye, gives you confidence and works for you is what you need.
Proving science isn't needed. The clubs are selling and other manufacturers are doing similar products therefore there must be something in it.
You could argue it's no difference to when cavity back irons first appeared.

 

[WirralC]

206 bones and 350 joints. We just aren't made for accurate 2-dimensional motion.

I think the general point I’m trying to make on that is that there is a lot less chance of all those bones and joints delivering an arc at precisely the right point with a square face than a simple forward and back motion. When I putt now I’m definitely moving less, or at least it feels like that. What percentage of an arc has the face in the correct position? There’s more to go wrong in getting all those body parts to deliver that 1 in 100 position in my opinion. I think the whole ‘body parts’ argument is wrong

 

[Golf is fun]

I think the general point I’m trying to make on that is that there is a lot less chance of all those bones and joints delivering an arc at precisely the right point with a square face than a simple forward and back motion. When I putt now I’m definitely moving less, or at least it feels like that. What percentage of an arc has the face in the correct position? There’s more to go wrong in getting all those body parts to deliver that 1 in 100 position in my opinion. I think the whole ‘body parts’ argument is wrong

Although it might be counterintuitive, it's actually the opposite, you use less muscles and joints making the arc than making the straight line, because of the club not being directly below your shoulder joint and your back not being perpendicular to the ground.

If you really wanted to make a straight line the most efficient way to do it would be to fold 90 degrees at the hips and have a very short putter with a 90 degree lie angle. Kind of like what Michelle Wie tried a while back, except the arms would need to hang vertically below the shoulders and the putter be much shorter and more upright.

 

[VVega]

Everything counts in large amounts

Putting is the easiest aspect to tinker with. A line, dot, colour on top of the putter matters, see the video below. Any change has a potential to produce positive results and can be measured somewhat:

It is impossible to separate the impact of the weight/length/shape etc from zero or non-zero torque. Hence, making LAB’s marketing claims is fine, calling their approach a scientific revolution is not.

 

[garyinderry]

If you really wanted to make a straight line the most efficient way to do it would be to fold 90 degrees at the hips and have a very short putter with a 90 degree lie angle. Kind of like what Michelle Wie tried a while back, except the arms would need to hang vertically below the shoulders and the putter be much shorter and more upright.

The legal limit for lie is 80 degrees.

 

[WirralC]

Although it might be counterintuitive, it's actually the opposite, you use less muscles and joints making the arc than making the straight line, because of the club not being directly below your shoulder joint and your back not being perpendicular to the ground.

If you really wanted to make a straight line the most efficient way to do it would be to fold 90 degrees at the hips and have a very short putter with a 90 degree lie angle. Kind of like what Michelle Wie tried a while back, except the arms would need to hang vertically below the shoulders and the putter be much shorter and more upright.

Have to disagree on this one, we all move differently so I suppose there’s no right answer but personally I can feel more parts of my body engaging with an arc than straight

 

[VVega]

can feel

Not disagreeing, but feel != real

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The bodies natural movement is an arc, just as the natural swing gives a fade/slice. We work on it to counteract it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Has anyone seen a stranger, more awful putting technique than Michelle Wie at the end of her career, as per the photo? Just painful to see.