Your thoughts. Seriously.....

Smiffy

First of all sorry to hear it has gotten to this stage. Having read the points here and given that you have evidence of a driver doing the same thing without similar action being taken there does seem a case for appeal and potentially for victimisation. I can understand the ACAS angle as there is a financial liability but I assume that was the case when your colleague had his accident too.

I think you need to get it in writing, maybe take some legal advice from that on offer here and see how the land lies after that. I know you've been made up since you got the millstone of your former boss off your case and its a shame one moment has but such a downer on things. I know how hard it is to win from HID's experience when she left her jobat Sand Martins over an incident that was shall we say "incorrectly handled" and we are still in legal negotiations
 
My regular playing partner got an instant dismissal 8 months ago, appealed and lost and went for a tribunal. The company made a much lower offer than his claim and he had no choice to take it as that time out of work left him skint. He finally got a job last week. The feeling was that it was cheaper to sack him and pay the agreed compensation than pay notice and redundancy money

The fact is that you still have a job at a really bad time and, although even as a company owner, it is clear to me that you have been harshly treated, I would advise you not to act hastily. Just because you don't go off on one with the company, doesn't mean that you accept the warning willingly, and anyway, they sound unlikey to rescind it, but it has to be expunged from the record at some stage in the future. I would think seriously about the consequenses of disputing it as you may well fall out with the new boss and then it's downhill all the way

I wish you luck Rob


Chris
 
So, back to the original accident when "you took your eyes off the road for a second".


Did she have a nice ass or pert boobies???
 
Smiffy said:
James. It really isn't that easy to "find another job".
I'm 56 in January. Other firms don't want 56 year old salesmen. I cannot afford to go and work in Tesco or Payless DIY, if I could I would have got out of this line of work years ago.
Take my word for it. Have you been down the JobCentre lately or looked in the local papers?
There is feck all about.
Click to expand...

I know mate, I know it's hard but I feel terrible for the situation you are in, as mentioned before it's a right shame seeing as you seemed to be pretty pleased with your new environment.

Fancy selling double glazing for 50K? You could do worse than email this company and asking if they have any space for a well experienced 56 yr old super gifted salesman looking to get some job satisfaction selling a top quality product that is respected across the nation.... http://www.jobstoday.co.uk/job/field-sales-executive-938630465?src=search :D
 
The thing is with insurance some companies will choose to self insure which means they will pay any damage to there own vehicles so this is where the company loss could be seen as.

Now if I was you it could be worth appealing and playing stupid as such to buy yourself more time. Something as silly as well I took the rap at the time because he was a good friend. But now I dont remember seeing any brake lights were they tested? Insurance claims can sometimes take up to a year to sort themselves out especially if it goes with whiplash injury. It may not look the best personally but playing hardball with them could worry them a bit. Try find out as many people who have had accidents within your company see what happened with them.
 
vig said:
Rob
Did they charge you with gross misconduct? If you admitted it and it was looked on as driving without due care and attention then they could deem it as such. In which case they could have dismissed.
Click to expand...

Yes, "gross misconduct" was mentioned Dave. Bit harsh in my book. As I say, if I had been spotted racing at 90mph in my company car, or been reported for driving like a loon, I could have understood it. Had that been the case then I wouldn't really complain had I been goonered. A "final written warning" would have felt like I had got off lightly.
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments guys.
I've got until the end of the week to tender my appeal. I'm not going to go into it like a bull in a china shop.
I'll see what else I can find out over the next few days with regard to other accidents that have happened and what warnings, if any, were given out.
Meanwhile, I will be driving even more sedately than before.....
 
a couple of years back a bloke at work had his van nicked while working on a job, he had reported the battery being goosed and had to leave the engine running to use his hazzards/warning beacon (BT engineer), someone jumped in and drove off. van was recovered but tools nicked. 35 years service not even a blemish and he got a final written warning, spoke to union about appeal and got told to accept it as wouldnt get any better. Swallow it and move forwards
 
all ill say is im glad im in the union.

GMB always back us to the hills against our employer, even over stupid things like someone was caught smoking in there van in the plant and transport depot. Person doing the disciplinary had 1 letter of the number plate wrong union got it thrown out and the case dropped and the employee who everyone knew was guilty got given an apology haha
 
Smiffy,

Read this a bit late but here are a few things to consider. I am Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Management and have been the MD of an international Company for many years.

The crux of this matter is whether the company is conforming to it's disiplinary procedure, and, whether the procedure conforms to Employment Law.

You should have been issued with a Company Handbook when you were employeed and that book should have a clear disciplinary procedure. The procedure should identify the levels of warning and give examples of what misconduct relates to each level.

The handbook will also need to explain how the disciplinary meeting will be held, how you will be notified, how you will able to present your case, that you may bring a representative or colleague with you and who will be conducting the enquiry.

If any of the proceedures in the handbook have not been carried out correctly you should send a letter to the person who you may appeal to, indentifying what was wrong.

If you disagree with the decision of the disciplinary enquiry then you should appeal, using the appeal procedure from the handbook.

Make sure you make notes at every point of the enquiry, if anything is unclear then ask for clarification and dont be afraid to be seen to make notes on anything said to you.

I would suggest that you have three ways of proceeding with this now:

You can appeal.

You can ask to have an unofficial, off the record talk with the MD and explain to him your feelings and concerns that this matter looks like escallating into something neither of you want.

You can take the warning and hope that it is the end of the matter.

Only you can make this decision but I would suggest the second way was always the one I found best.

Good luck.
 
RGDave said:
Seems harsh, but it's a a harsh world....keep your head down and it'll blow over.
Bad luck.
Click to expand...

As an employer I would agree with this as it is difficult to wipe ANY slate clean, always a trace left behind!

Your next months sales figures will, maybe, wipe the slate a wee bit cleaner if you are over target and then it is onwards and upwards.

By next month another 'Smiffy' may be on the slate and this will all be history.

However it is very similar to a defender being given a yellow card ... every future move must now be considered.

Not easy to live (work) with this hanging over you but having a job, at this time, is the important thing.
 
Smiffy, read this thread front to back. Like Socket, post #73, I've had a fair bit of experience of these from the mgt side. His post pretty much covers what your options are. A couple of things; you may not have been given a copy of the Company Handbook when you joined but at the very least access to it should have been detailed in your contract of employment. Many companies now keep an up to date copy of the handbook on their server, which everyone has access to.

The other thing, just in case this is a backdoor road to redundancy you need to appeal your current 'conviction.' If you don't, and they pull another stunt in the future to get you out the door, you won't have as much ammunition if you just take this one as being fact.

Good luck.
 
Sounds plausible thats its a move to "manage" you out of the business. If your face dont fit or if they're not doing well they may be looking to cut the wage bill and better to sack someone than to pay redundancy?

Keep your power dry Smiffy because there could be grounds for constructive dismissal or similar in the future. I cant see that a one-off accident like that be considered as a disciplinary.

They cannot sack you for that but my advice is to keep your nose clean and head down.
 
I hope everything went ok Smiffy, but just to let you chaps know how crap the motor trade is, my employer has a £2500 excess per vehicle, we also have to pay a contribution to that if we are inovolved in an accident. If a car under our care is damaged (say, parked on the road outside the dealership) we have to pay a fee as a contribution to the excess. Disciplinary procedure then kicks in, with similar results to Smiffy's if proved to be at fault.
 
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