Yorkshire Boys DQ

[woofers]

...... they ended up being only 5 minutes late.

Just out of interest, where would you draw the line...6, 7, 8, 9, 10 minutes or more?

 

[Grant85]

I think ordinarily, it would be correct.

Time keeping is a big issue for a lot of people and there will always be people who leave things to the last minute and don't allow themselves much leeway. Therefore it's correct they are strict, otherwise you could risk half a dozen people turning up late and expecting their time to be rearranged, especially if you set a precedent.

For a normal medal, I might plan to arrive 20 or 30 minutes before tee time. Register, hit a few chips, putts etc. But I know that missing my tee time isn't the end of the world. I can phone ahead and the club might be able to reschedule for me, or else I've missed the comp. For a final or an event I've had to qualify for, or pay an entry fee - I will definitely plan to arrive earlier. Perhaps have more of a warm up, or even a meal at the club before play.

I'm sure this would be the case for this lad and normally he'd be giving himself an hour to warm up and hit a few balls before a tee time. Maybe longer if he's travelling a fair distance.

However if they were limited to a 30 minute window prior to tee time, then tough to argue this doesn't count as exceptional circumstances.

 

[Beedee]

I know that "car breaks down" is explicitly listed as not an exceptional event. It is for me. Been driving for over 35 years and maybe twice I've had to stop for running repairs. Something that happens once every 15 years is pretty much an exception in my books. Maybe the rule makers should buy more reliable cars or get them serviced occasionally.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Just out of interest, where would you draw the line...6, 7, 8, 9, 10 minutes or more?

That's a judgement call, something that golf seems to struggle with. I would allow 2, perhaps 3, time slots so that is around 15 minutes. I would base that on how late the person would likely be, the knock on effect of moving the other time slots, the knock on effect to the other players in the grouping. If the disruption is too great then you would need to be strict, if not then the organiser can allow for the extra time.

The decision would be made by the organiser, not on the basis of asking the other players. The players should not be put in an awkward situation, that is for the organiser to decide.

In other amateur sports, if a team is stuck in traffic or has to change a wheel the start time gets put back. They don't just award the game to the other side. The referee / umpire would allow a certain amount of time that is deemed reasonable but that time is not set in stone.

 

[Imurg]

The issue here is that he's broken a rule of golf, not just a rule imposed by the organisers.
If you're more than 5 minutes late its a DQ..simples.
If you start bending that rule, for whatever reason, you have to start bending other rules too....
A 3 1/2 minute search, a drop 2 and a bit clublengths away, its only just OB - play on.
You just can't do these things.
If I arrive late for the monthly medal there's no way theyre going to faff around moving people here and there just to accommodate me...
And I think the fact that the lad has accepted the ruling and taken it on the chin shows it's the right decision.
In recent times Paul Casey and Rory have both come a whisker from missing their times....more than 5 minutes and the DQ kicks in.
There could only be one decision in these circumstances....

 

[doublebogey7]

That's a judgement call, something that golf seems to struggle with. I would allow 2, perhaps 3, time slots so that is around 15 minutes. I would base that on how late the person would likely be, the knock on effect of moving the other time slots, the knock on effect to the other players in the grouping. If the disruption is too great then you would need to be strict, if not then the organiser can allow for the extra time.

The decision would be made by the organiser, not on the basis of asking the other players. The players should not be put in an awkward situation, that is for the organiser to decide.

In other amateur sports, if a team is stuck in traffic or has to change a wheel the start time gets put back. They don't just award the game to the other side. The referee / umpire would allow a certain amount of time that is deemed reasonable but that time is not set in stone.

The article clearly states that the boy missed his tee time by 15 minutes. So that would have meant moving at least 3 other groups forward all of whom had been asked to arrive no more than 30 minutes before their tee time. This would have given them no more than 10 minutes to warm up, do you feel that would have been fair.

Can you not also see the problem in your approach with setting a precedent.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The article clearly states that the boy missed his tee time by 15 minutes. So that would have meant moving at least 3 other groups forward all of whom had been asked to arrive no more than 30 minutes before their tee time. This would have given them no more than 10 minutes to warm up, do you feel that would have been fair.

Can you not also see the problem in your approach with setting a precedent.

For some reason I thought I had previously read it was 5 minutes. You are quite correct, it was 15 minutes and that would need 3 tee times to be moved. It is moving each group forward by one slot, that could be anyone of 7, 8 or 10 minutes depending on the intervals used. That would be part of the judgement call for the organiser. I personally don't see moving forward any of those times as an issue but that would depend how ready the other groups were. If they were not then it is an issue but that was never mentioned, they simply stated the ruling.

In terms of setting a precedent, golf is not a court of law, it is a sport. In this case it is an amateur sport. To be so rigid is unnecessary in my view. In this instance leeway could have been given, another time it may not have. That wont bring down the game, judgements can be made.

 

[doublebogey7]

For some reason I thought I had previously read it was 5 minutes. You are quite correct, it was 15 minutes and that would need 3 tee times to be moved. It is moving each group forward by one slot, that could be anyone of 7, 8 or 10 minutes depending on the intervals used. That would be part of the judgement call for the organiser. I personally don't see moving forward any of those times as an issue but that would depend how ready the other groups were. If they were not then it is an issue but that was never mentioned, they simply stated the ruling.

In terms of setting a precedent, golf is not a court of law, it is a sport. In this case it is an amateur sport. To be so rigid is unnecessary in my view. In this instance leeway could have been given, another time it may not have. That wont bring down the game, judgements can be made.[/QU Would you feel the same if you were one of the players who with already a reduced warm-up time was being asked to take a further 10 min cut in what is your biggest event of the year?
You're right it wouldn't bring down the game but would provide plenty of ammunition for others with grievances going forward, including the media.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

In a county event I've been moved to an earlier time than I had been expecting. I don't know why, but as I was there early I wasn't bothered.
So changes can be made to accommodate people. A little flexibility never hurt anyone.

 

[doublebogey7]

In a county event I've been moved to an earlier time than I had been expecting. I don't know why, but as I was there early I wasn't bothered.
So changes can be made to accommodate people. A little flexibility never hurt anyone.

In this case, the boys had been asked to arrive no more than 30 minutes before their tee time giving them no more than 20 mins max warm-up time reduced to 10 mins for those asked to move forward. I suspect you would not have been so accommodating in these circumstances.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

At the moment the media are hammering golf for this. Golf is not coming well out of this, golf journalists are at the front of the queue criticising the decision. Had they altered the tee off time it would not have raised a mention in the media, it really would not have been a big deal.

 

[PaulS]

At the moment the media are hammering golf for this. Golf is not coming well out of this, golf journalists are at the front of the queue criticising the decision. Had they altered the tee off time it would not have raised a mention in the media, it really would not have been a big deal.

Do you think you are going a little over the top in regards the “hammering”

Golf as a sport isn’t being harmed at all - it’s no different to any sport where a person is late.

How many times do people want Rules of Golf to be bent or changed when someone breaks one. Everyone else in the field managed to get there in time so imagine how they would feel if they bent the rules of golf just to allow the person to play and he then won ? Not really fair is it

The young lad was fully supportive of the rule and accepted it with a lot more maturity and grace than a lot of the “social media” journos just looking for traffic.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Do you think you are going a little over the top in regards the “hammering”

Golf as a sport isn’t being harmed at all - it’s no different to any sport where a person is late.

How many times do people want Rules of Golf to be bent or changed when someone breaks one. Everyone else in the field managed to get there in time so imagine how they would feel if they bent the rules of golf just to allow the person to play and he then won ? Not really fair is it

The young lad was fully supportive of the rule and accepted it with a lot more maturity and grace than a lot of the “social media” journos just looking for traffic.

I've yet to see a golf journalist do anything but despair about this, they know how it looks to the non golf world.

Other sports do allow flexibility regarding start times, in the right circumstances. They are not as rigid as golf, I don't think any sport is.

The rule here is not about gaining an advantage, there is no benefit to the player. The circumstances were visibly extenuating to everyone but the organisers.

The young lad has been praised across the board, no complaints from him.

There is a clear divide on this. I'm in the camp where this is excessive and it damages golf to the outside world. Plenty on here, you included, see it as part of the rules of golf. That is fine, we are allowed to disagree and discuss, not that you or anyone else has said we can not .

 

[rulefan]

It would have been simple enough to jiggle around a couple of groups. They were in contact, they ended up being only 5 minutes late. Bring forward two, 3 groups at most, slot this group in after that. It really isn't hard and it would be what any other sport would do. It is another 'golf shoots itself in the foot' moment with its rules pedantry. People looking from outside will just shake their heads in bemusement.

No, he was 15 minutes late. I was in a refereeing break at the time. There wasn't any leeway to adjust groups easily, they had all been set up in GolfGenius with group codes and start times. In addition to the fact that there was no space to slot in between the am and pm rounds.
I must say he handled the situation very well and there was no suggestion of 'Why can't you just slot me in?' but 'Yes, that is the rule and the committee must apply it'. Which was what he said when he phoned in to say he had the problem and to give time updates.
In the event he chose to catch up his group and walk round with them. The committee gave him the option to play casually with them and to play the pm round for handicap but he chose not to.

 

[ScienceBoy]

I think this is just one of those things that golf can’t change and will always be challenged on.

If a good solution is ever found that works for all competitors and the organisers then it should be implemented.

Sometimes stuff happens and you just have to take it on the chin and move on.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

The issue here is that he's broken a rule of golf, not just a rule imposed by the organisers.
If you're more than 5 minutes late its a DQ..simples.
If you start bending that rule, for whatever reason, you have to start bending other rules too....
A 3 1/2 minute search, a drop 2 and a bit clublengths away, its only just OB - play on.
You just can't do these things.
If I arrive late for the monthly medal there's no way theyre going to faff around moving people here and there just to accommodate me...
And I think the fact that the lad has accepted the ruling and taken it on the chin shows it's the right decision.
In recent times Paul Casey and Rory have both come a whisker from missing their times....more than 5 minutes and the DQ kicks in.
There could only be one decision in these circumstances....

What logic dictates that other rules would need to be bent?

This rule has a specific exemption for exceptional circumstances (I assume used somewhere before without the rules of golf falling apart) whereas the others don’t. As said earlier I personally think Covid restricting point of arrival makes this exceptional but understand the county decision.

If they had stated exceptional, then nobody is going to say their out of bounds shot shouldn’t count. That argument doesn’t make any sense personally.

 

[Springveldt]

Or he could have driven to within 5 mins of the place and stopped for a coffee. Harsh, yes but there was an alternative for the competitor too. Just pull into a lay-by round the corner. And if he'd set off with that in mind he'd have had enough time to change the tyre.

Time to change a tyre has always been the leeway I've scheduled into a journey.

Don’t think I’ve ever factored in time to change a tyre for any of my journeys. I’ve been driving for 26 years and had to do it twice.

Maybe you need to buy better tyres??

 

[Deleted member 1147]

What logic dictates that other rules would need to be bent?

This rule has a specific exemption for exceptional circumstances (I assume used somewhere before without the rules of golf falling apart) whereas the others don’t. As said earlier I personally think Covid restricting point of arrival makes this exceptional but understand the county decision.

If they had stated exceptional, then nobody is going to say their out of bounds shot shouldn’t count. That argument doesn’t make any sense personally.

No one who thinks this is an unfortunate situation is suggesting all rules should be broken, just those using extreme whataboutery against those thinking it was a poor outcome.
I think some people just think that, given the Covid restrictions in place, some leeway could have been given. After all, he’d have probably been there at least an hour early in normal conditions.

 

[rulefan]

After all, he’d have probably been there at least an hour early in normal conditions.

Unlikely. Players rarely arrive very early for these competitions. The only ones arriving with an hour to spare are those who have breakfast when they arrive. As he only lives 15 miles away he would have had breakfast before leaving.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Unlikely. Players rarely arrive very early for these competitions. The only ones arriving with an hour to spare are those who have breakfast when they arrive. As he only lives 15 miles away he would have had breakfast before leaving.

Christ, I leave home an hour before my teetime and Live less than 3 miles from my home course.
Warm up, putting, chipping and chatting take up at least an hour.
I thought these were meant to be potential county/England players .