Wrong putting green

[chrisd]

I think it's been done here recently but it happened in a 4bbb today.

We were playing a hole with a temporary green and one of our opponents wanted to putt off the main green down to the temp one. I believe the shot would have constituted playing off a Wrong Green under the definition


A “wrong putting green” is any putting green other than that of the hole being played.

Am I correct or have I missed anything?

 

[rosecott]

I think it's been done here recently but it happened in a 4bbb today.

We were playing a hole with a temporary green and one of our opponents wanted to putt off the main green down to the temp one. I believe the shot would have constituted playing off a Wrong Green under the definition


A “wrong putting green” is any putting green other than that of the hole being played.

Am I correct or have I missed anything?

You are correct. Trying it on?

 

[chrisd]

You are correct. Trying it on?

I was the only one who said that they had to drop off the green as it was a wrong putting green and all three looked me as if I was mad, but then, that's not unusual with two of them

 

[Foxholer]

...all three looked me as if I was mad, but then, that's not unusual with two of them

They've played with you before then!

Good call though!

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

I think it's been done here recently but it happened in a 4bbb today.

We were playing a hole with a temporary green and one of our opponents wanted to putt off the main green down to the temp one. I believe the shot would have constituted playing off a Wrong Green under the definition.

A “wrong putting green” is any putting green other than that of the hole being played.

Am I correct or have I missed anything?

I think that could have been mine about 3 months ago in an end of season county bash. We were walking to one tee when we saw a guy putting about 20 yards from one green to another. In that case it seemed I was the only one who thought something was wrong out of 12 players (3 fourball groups).

 

[chrisd]

All three of mine argued that it was still the a part of the hole we were playing

 

[Foxholer]

All three of mine argued that it was still the a part of the hole we were playing

It may well be, but because it is not THE Putting Green of the one being played, it is a wrong one.

Putting Green
The “putting green’ is all ground of the hole being played that is specially prepared for putting or otherwise defined as such by the Committee. A ball is on the putting green when any part of it touches the putting green.

Wrong Putting Green
A “wrong putting green” is any putting green other than that of the hole being played. Unless otherwise prescribed by the Committee, this term includes a practice putting green or pitching green on the course.

 

[chrisd]

It may well be, but because it is not THE Putting Green of the one being played, it is a wrong one.

Putting Green
The “putting green’ is all ground of the hole being played that is specially prepared for putting or otherwise defined as such by the Committee. A ball is on the putting green when any part of it touches the putting green.

Wrong Putting Green
A “wrong putting green” is any putting green other than that of the hole being played. Unless otherwise prescribed by the Committee, this term includes a practice putting green or pitching green on the course.

Yep, that's what I told them!

 

[rulefan]

Specific correspondence between me and the R&A.

Q. If a hole has two areas specially prepared (and maintained) for putting but only one in use on any one day, are both considered to be 'the' putting green. The question has arisen because the definition says 'all ground' so it is argued that both areas are embraced by that term.

A. The one not in use will be a wrong putting green.

 

[chrisd]

Specific correspondence between me and the R&A.

Q. If a hole has two areas specially prepared (and maintained) for putting but only one in use on any one day, are both considered to be 'the' putting green. The question has arisen because the definition says 'all ground' so it is argued that both areas are embraced by that term.

A. The one not in use will be a wrong putting green.

Thanks Rulefan, that's very interesting

 

[mchacker]

If a hole is playing a temp green isn't the regular green regarded as GUR?

 

[palindromicbob]

If a hole is playing a temp green isn't the regular green regarded as GUR?

Only if defined as such by the committee otherwise it is simply the wrong green. There shouldn't be a need to define a green as GUR since the rules specifically prohibit playing from a wrong green.

At some courses where the temp greens are basically on the front fringe area of the existing green then it might be sensible to line of the main green and define it as GUR where relief must be taken. For other courses then it may help to provide clarity if they fence/mark off and put signage on main greens they are trying to protect.

Lots of players have believe a myth that is fine if you use a putter to play of a wrong green.

 

[Fish]

I think what doesn't help also as I saw many putting off the main green down to a temp on a par3 (9th) at ours where the temp was very close to the front of the "actual green" is, they don't mark them out and as such there is no definition to where the temp green boundaries are! I know this isn't wholly relevant because you'd know you were on [another] green, but I think they should all still be marked IMO because you need to know to remove/tend or leave the flag, otherwise you can fire your putt or chip at it looking for an advantage!

I learnt something today, I didn't know this rule.

 

[rulefan]

If a hole is playing a temp green isn't the regular green regarded as GUR?

See above. But there is a small difference in the interference/relief criteria between GUR and Wrong Green.
Stance is not considered when specifying interference and relief from a Wrong Green. Some clubs declare them as GUR Play Prohibited to ensure players don't get penalised for playing from a wrong place by getting the npr wrong or taking relief when they shouldn't.
Some clubs do it because they don't know any better.

 

[rulefan]

I think what doesn't help also as I saw many putting off the main green down to a temp on a par3 (9th) at ours where the temp was very close to the front of the "actual green" is, they don't mark them out and as such there is no definition to where the temp green boundaries are!

I have some (but not a lot) sympathy with those clubs who can't (for one reason or another) place the winter greens away from the main green.

They will want to save the area around the hole from intensive shuffling, so place it on the front apron. But they still want the players to have a reasonably large target for the approach. The shuffling around on wet greens can cause long term problems with drainage and grass quality.

What they don't realise is that it is now more difficult as the hole is now very close to any front greenside bunkers, making the approach tight, and the putting surface is relatively poor.

 

[RayR51]

One course I've played (can't remember which one at the moment) has a massive green that is used for two holes where the flags are obviously quite some distance apart. Will have to look next time and see if there's a local rule that covers this as, if your ball lands close to the wrong pin, would you be playing from the wrong green? Anyone come across this before?

 

[chrisd]

After my original post yesterday, I played a 4bbb match today and we had 3 occasions where players landed on the main green and none of them knew the rule and all thought it was ok to play off a green so long as it was with a putter

 

[Fish]

One course I've played (can't remember which one at the moment) has a massive green that is used for two holes where the flags are obviously quite some distance apart. Will have to look next time and see if there's a local rule that covers this as, if your ball lands close to the wrong pin, would you be playing from the wrong green? Anyone come across this before?

Stoneleigh Deer Park has a green like this, 2 large greens with no [middle] border so I've regularly seeing people putt from 1 to the other when they've hit too long.

 

[rosecott]

One course I've played (can't remember which one at the moment) has a massive green that is used for two holes where the flags are obviously quite some distance apart. Will have to look next time and see if there's a local rule that covers this as, if your ball lands close to the wrong pin, would you be playing from the wrong green? Anyone come across this before?

No, unless the green is marked as two greens by stakes or a line.

 

[rulefan]

One course I've played (can't remember which one at the moment) has a massive green that is used for two holes where the flags are obviously quite some distance apart. Will have to look next time and see if there's a local rule that covers this as, if your ball lands close to the wrong pin, would you be playing from the wrong green? Anyone come across this before?

The Old Course at St Andrews has a number of double greens.

As an aside "The hole not in use on each green is a hole made by a greenkeeper – see Definition of "Ground Under Repair" – and Rule 25-1 is applicable".