Would you change your vote if Labour had a stronger leader?

[bluewolf]

No. I would've voted Conservative, obviously.

My mate Jo sent an email to me last night and made some good points about how this election and the run up to it, has highlighted the problem with the modern day left.

They are utterly convinced that they are right and have the moral high ground. The liberals of today love democracy and stringently defend freedom of speech, right up to the point that someone doesn't agree with their exact view.

At this point, the electorate become stupid or right wing bigots, the press become mind-altering dictators of the outcome and the Tories are positioned as campaigners of fear with the electoral system at fault.

It is always the same with the left, everyone is equal and everyone is great, unless you don't adhere to my liberal world view because that makes you a racist, fascist pig that I can abuse without fear of retribution because I am morally right and you are clueless.

Unfortunately, the country doesn't seem to agree this time does it? Basically after five years of Tory led government, more people this time around have said they support David Cameron and an incumbent PM has increased their number of seats in the commons for the next term for the first time since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

The left don't like it quite naturally and have reverted to type, on this forum too in some cases. I think it is pretty pathetic and maybe I am wrong but if the boot was on the other foot and Ed was in number 10, I don't think I would be tearing up my comics and taking to social media or dare I say a golf forum, to vent my spiteful spleen.

Strange, I don't think I've seen anyone "venting their spiteful spleen". I've seen some fairly decent debate though. Predominantly in the correct manner. In fact, I'd say that your post was more inflammatory than most I've seen on the subject.

 

[Snelly]

Strange, I don't think I've seen anyone "venting their spiteful spleen". I've seen some fairly decent debate though. Predominantly in the correct manner. In fact, I'd say that your post was more inflammatory than most I've seen on the subject.

I am sure you would say that. But that doesn't mean you are right and I certainly don't see my previous post as inflammatory.

Spiteful spleen - see Twitter. Loads of people that I follow and admire just seem to have completely lost the plot and turned into vicious left wing fanatics.

 

[jontymo]

Strange, I don't think I've seen anyone "venting their spiteful spleen". I've seen some fairly decent debate though. Predominantly in the correct manner. In fact, I'd say that your post was more inflammatory than most I've seen on the subject.

Have to agree with bluewolf, i have not seen a spiteful spleen on here, yes there is some debating but that is life and lets hope we all have a good long prosperous one at that.

 

[Ethan]

No. I would've voted Conservative, obviously.

My mate Jo sent an email to me last night and made some good points about how this election and the run up to it, has highlighted the problem with the modern day left.

They are utterly convinced that they are right and have the moral high ground. The liberals of today love democracy and stringently defend freedom of speech, right up to the point that someone doesn't agree with their exact view.

At this point, the electorate become stupid or right wing bigots, the press become mind-altering dictators of the outcome and the Tories are positioned as campaigners of fear with the electoral system at fault.

It is always the same with the left, everyone is equal and everyone is great, unless you don't adhere to my liberal world view because that makes you a racist, fascist pig that I can abuse without fear of retribution because I am morally right and you are clueless.

Unfortunately, the country doesn't seem to agree this time does it? Basically after five years of Tory led government, more people this time around have said they support David Cameron and an incumbent PM has increased their number of seats in the commons for the next term for the first time since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

The left don't like it quite naturally and have reverted to type, on this forum too in some cases. I think it is pretty pathetic and maybe I am wrong but if the boot was on the other foot and Ed was in number 10, I don't think I would be tearing up my comics and taking to social media or dare I say a golf forum, to vent my spiteful spleen.

There is no left in the UK now, apart from the SNP, I suppose.

The average working person in this country has benefitted enormously from traditional left leaning policies on health, education and working conditions. It is saddening that once many have taken that benefit, they then want to pull the ladder up behind them. That is a traditional right wing approach.

In this election, I think the hapless Ed played a part in torpedoing the election for Labour, but so too did the Labour party's confused identity. They don't know if they are a party of the traditional Labour supporter or some sort of centrist social democratic party. But the person who ultimately won this election was Lynton Crosby. He painted a simple but compelling (if also false) narrative for Camerpn, who parroted it until it got through the heads of many supporters.

PS. I didn't vote Labour.

 

[guest100718]

It wouldnt have changed my vote, but for many others image is a big deal and probably affected thier vote

 

[Fyldewhite]

There is no left in the UK now, apart from the SNP, I suppose.

The average working person in this country has benefitted enormously from traditional left leaning policies on health, education and working conditions. It is saddening that once many have taken that benefit, they then want to pull the ladder up behind them. That is a traditional right wing approach.

In this election, I think the hapless Ed played a part in torpedoing the election for Labour, but so too did the Labour party's confused identity. They don't know if they are a party of the traditional Labour supporter or some sort of centrist social democratic party. But the person who ultimately won this election was Lynton Crosby. He painted a simple but compelling (if also false) narrative for Camerpn, who parroted it until it got through the heads of many supporters..

Agree with every word Ethan. The bold bit sums it all up perfectly for me.

 

[Beezerk]

I know plenty of people who have stated they can't vote for Ed Milliband but would have opted for Labour had they had a "stronger" leader.

 

[bluewolf]

I am sure you would say that. But that doesn't mean you are right and I certainly don't see my previous post as inflammatory.

Spiteful spleen - see Twitter. Loads of people that I follow and admire just seem to have completely lost the plot and turned into vicious left wing fanatics.

I suspect that there are plenty of vitriolic morons on both sides of the debate.. Take this for instance - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/08/jk-rowling-harry-potter-labour_n_7243710.html

Social media is a great thing, but it does encourage the moronic to engage in other peoples lives..

 

[MegaSteve]

"We own the middle ground" was what did it for me... Almost a confirmation of what, I suppose, I already knew... Labour can, I believe, still look after the 'middle ground' without abandoning their roots which I feel they have done...

The man I was hoping to be the next Mayor of London appears to be setting his sights a little higher... Hopefully, he can be persuaded London should remain his main target leaving party leadership for another time...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I know plenty of people who have stated they can't vote for Ed Milliband but would have opted for Labour had they had a "stronger" leader.

...and so they voted UKIP/Tory? IMO many such who vote Tory have always got a good excuse to cover up for the fact that they vote Tory out of simple self-interest and greed - and they are either embarrassed by that or afraid at looking hypocritical to their friends. And in the last election they could also hide behind a confected 'fear' over the SNP generated by the Tories and their acolytes/leaders in the right wing press.

Where fear and greed come into play there would be nothing that could have done about it. The EMiliband effect was I suspect not particularly significant.

 

[Beezerk]

...and so they voted UKIP/Tory?

I didn't ask as it's none of my business how they voted. One said he was a lifelong Labour supported, not sure about the others.

 

[ColchesterFC]

...and so they voted UKIP/Tory? IMO many such who vote Tory have always got a good excuse to cover up for the fact that they vote Tory out of simple self-interest and greed - and they are either embarrassed by that or afraid at looking hypocritical to their friends. And in the last election they could also hide behind a confected 'fear' over the SNP generated by the Tories and their acolytes/leaders in the right wing press.

Where fear and greed come into play there would be nothing that could have done about it. The EMiliband effect was I suspect not particularly significant.

So to you it was fear and greed that won the election for the Conservatives? It wasn't that people didn't trust Labour with the economy. Or that they thought austerity and getting rid of the deficit was the right path to continue rather than a Labour spending spree. Or any number of other personal reasons that people might have had.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Indeed it isn't. But as a Labour voter myself I had reservations about Miliband and their message before and during the campaign. But his personality does not for me detract from the basic principles and objectives of the Labour party - as much as they might have more recently been diluted and twisted as New Labour. The LPs heart is for me basically in the right place and in those supporting it I find I m generally with like-minded people. Conversely no matter how much benefit I myself might accrue from a Tory government, I will never, ever vote for them.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So to you it was fear and greed that won the election for the Conservatives? It wasn't that people didn't trust Labour with the economy. Or that they thought austerity and getting rid of the deficit was the right path to continue rather than a Labour spending spree. Or any number of other personal reasons that people might have had.

I didn't say that - but as sure as heck for many that again is something comfortable to hide their own self-interest behind.

 

[Hobbit]

Not picking on you Brian, but does this mean that you do believe Cameron? I definitely don't think that Ed was the right person to lead the country, but I do think he was a principled man.

I believe every politician is guilty of omission and of being circumspect with the truth. I also believe that the further they go up the food chain, the more they have to reflect, and speak in support of the party's policies. I just don't believe Ed Millband believed in what he was trying to sell. Unfortunately, he was ably supported by Ed Balls, who got chewed up too many times on questions about the futures finances of the UK and how Labour would fund their policies.

As for being prinicipled. They all are, but their priniciples aren't always aligned to our own.

If it has been the original Blair, from his first term, he'd have got my vote - actually he did. And if it had been David Milliband, supported by a decent shadow chancellor and realistic policies in terms of affordability I would have been very tempted.

 

[bluewolf]

I believe every politician is guilty of omission and of being circumspect with the truth. I also believe that the further they go up the food chain, the more they have to reflect, and speak in support of the party's policies. I just don't believe Ed Millband believed in what he was trying to sell. Unfortunately, he was ably supported by Ed Balls, who got chewed up too many times on questions about the futures finances of the UK and how Labour would fund their policies.

As for being prinicipled. They all are, but their priniciples aren't always aligned to our own.

If it has been the original Blair, from his first term, he'd have got my vote - actually he did. And if it had been David Milliband, supported by a decent shadow chancellor and realistic policies in terms of affordability I would have been very tempted.

Good answer..:thup:

 

[NWJocko]

...and so they voted UKIP/Tory? IMO many such who vote Tory have always got a good excuse to cover up for the fact that they vote Tory out of simple self-interest and greed - and they are either embarrassed by that or afraid at looking hypocritical to their friends. And in the last election they could also hide behind a confected 'fear' over the SNP generated by the Tories and their acolytes/leaders in the right wing press.

Where fear and greed come into play there would be nothing that could have done about it. The EMiliband effect was I suspect not particularly significant.

I'm not a Tory voter but this is utter nonsense.

You're suggesting Tory voters/supporters should be embarrassed of the fact whilst you (again...) sit on your high horse?

I don't vote Tory but certainly don't look down my nose at those who do like you!!

They would have valid reasons for voting Tory that aren't all "self interest and greed".

I await your usual parochial response........

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm not a Tory voter but this is utter nonsense.

You're suggesting Tory voters/supporters should be embarrassed of the fact whilst you (again...) sit on your high horse?

I don't vote Tory but certainly don't look down my nose at those who do like you!!

They would have valid reasons for voting Tory that aren't all "self interest and greed".

I await your usual parochial response........

Why did the opinion polls grossly underestimate the levels of Tory support?

I suggest it was shame; a significant number of Tory voters are ashamed to admit it.

 

[NWJocko]

Why did the opinion polls grossly underestimate the levels of Tory support?

I suggest it was shame; a significant number of Tory voters are ashamed to admit it.

May well be, my point is why should they be embarrassed?

If they've considered their options and decided the Tories provide them with their favoured option then good luck to them.

Unless someone who has done the same and come to the conclusion Labour or any other more left leaning party fit their choice are "better" which SILH seems to be suggesting...

 

[AmandaJR]

I voted Conservative and spoke to many before and after who voted the same and in no way shape or form are ashamed and/or embarrassed to admit it!

What the hell is there to be ashamed of and what the hell is there to be so proud of if voting Labour/Lib Dem etc etc?!

I suggest Snelly's point has been proven!