World Handicap System

[Jamesbrown]

I've had an invite from behalf of the R&A to attend a focus group next month on the World Handicapping System. They'll be free breakfast!

Definitely interested in a USGA style system in which all scores can be registered for handicapping purposes.

I believe we will looking at the way it's done in other countries and what we like about those.

 

[Old Skier]

I've had an invite from behalf of the R&A to attend a focus group next month on the World Handicapping System. They'll be free breakfast!

Definitely interested in a USGA style system in which all scores can be registered for handicapping purposes.

I believe we will looking at the way it's done in other countries and what we like about those.

Perhaps you could ask how, if all cards go in, how is it policed. My concern as many of those on the forum feel that cheating is high in their club. Fine for those who want to reduce their handicap but not so good if there are some out there wanting to artificially increase their handicap.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Perhaps you could ask how, if all cards go in, how is it policed. My concern as many of those on the forum feel that cheating is high in their club. Fine for those who want to reduce their handicap but not so good if there are some out there wanting to artificially increase their handicap.

i should of also added that I'll be asking about how it could reduce Cheating. It'll never fully go away. They'll always find some way! But a unified system with direct interclub interaction between home and away clubs is what I'd like to see.

Im not exactly sure what will be asked, but it's two and half hours at some club in the West Midlands.

 

[Old Skier]

But a unified system with direct interclub interaction between home and away clubs is what I'd like to see.

Already there really via CDH numbers they (EG and handicap software company's) just need to adapt the software to include BB comps.

 

[duncan mackie]

a unified system with direct interclub interaction between home and away clubs is what I'd like to see.

This already exists as a fundamental part of the existing CONGU system.

I suspect the crux of the workshops will be about garnering opinion of exactly what scores should be part of the CONGU flavour to the system (now that they seem to have opened do the door to such differences.

Slope with ratings and bogey indexes as well as handicap indexes (rather than fixed directly comparable handicaps) and the handicapping to par seem to be accepted core elements - how far to move frommpotential to form (via the ratio of the rolling average) and whether to incorporate fiddle factors to avoid fast moving upward handicap adjustments seem to be the areas they're looking to implement on a popularised basis (initially).

Unfortunately similar approaches over the last few decades haven't worked well on such an approach - match play allowances and the recent step back from more inclusive handicapping being obvious examples.

 

[Old Skier]

Matchplay allowances are one of the areas they seem to have got it right. IMO obviously. The results at our club prove that the better players are still getting the result.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Already there really via CDH numbers they (EG and handicap software company's) just need to adapt the software to include BB comps.

What if one club uses Club2000, one IG and another uses Masterscorecard?
Are scores still sent to home club? Ive seen it between clubs that use IG. But not played in an individual open with a club that uses club2000.
are scores sent to England Golf then passed to club database. Or is there a direct exchange between different handicapping software? Could do with asking the handicap secretary about that one.

I know it's up to the player to disclose scores anyway But the integrity of some people differs.

 

[duncan mackie]

Matchplay allowances are one of the areas they seem to have got it right. IMO obviously. The results at our club prove that the better players are still getting the result.

They knew what the correct allowances were when the undlying handicapping moved from medal scores to stableford (and a few other tweaks) - then they fudged it in response to reactions at club level.
Even now it's still fudged - The argument given being that at 90% it's nearly, effectively, sort of, 100% in practice ...and there No point in having the 100% argument now given the future changes (being discussed here) because it will get implemented with those (in line with everyone else).

All systems, including CONGU, have a significant reward for excellence built in. For some it's not enough.

So I prefer "they are getting it right" but, as with the implementation of cat 5 (or whatever you want to call widening those within the system) it was well intentioned and, effectively, pulled after consultation. What went ahead is a complete mess and worse than doing nothing.

 

[duncan mackie]

What if one club uses Club2000, one IG and another uses Masterscorecard?
Are scores still sent to home club? Ive seen it between clubs that use IG. But not played in an individual open with a club that uses club2000.
are scores sent to England Golf then passed to club database. Or is there a direct exchange between different handicapping software? Could do with asking the handicap secretary about that one.

I know it's up to the player to disclose scores anyway But the integrity of some people differs.

All scores have to be uploaded to E.G. by the club operating the Q event. They then get downloaded (uploaded, synched whatever) with the players handicap record held on the players home club system (whichever one). Differences in timing occur based on when the clubs systems are sysnched to the EG database - versions and technology impact the timing as well as individual club processes.

In theory this shouldn't matter to a players playing handicapmfor any event as it is the players responsibility to implement downward adjustments ahead ofnthe system.

 

[Old Skier]

All scores have to be uploaded to E.G. by the club operating the Q event. They then get downloaded (uploaded, synched whatever) with the players handicap record held on the players home club system (whichever one). Differences in timing occur based on when the clubs systems are sysnched to the EG database - versions and technology impact the timing as well as individual club processes.

In theory this shouldn't matter to a players playing handicapmfor any event as it is the players responsibility to implement downward adjustments ahead ofnthe system.

The problem in the end with open qualifier scores is that clubs can reject the score, surely a better way was for all scores to be automatically uploaded or the reject button removed.

 

[louise_a]

I do find it strange that the system allows you to reject an away score, I always click accept when one comes through.

 

[Old Skier]

I do find it strange that the system allows you to reject an away score.

My thoughts exactly although it might be to do with you manually entering a card before the sync takes place (pretty unlikely) but you do have the individual comp delete button that would take care of double entry.

 

[Jamesbrown]

All scores have to be uploaded to E.G. by the club operating the Q event. They then get downloaded (uploaded, synched whatever) with the players handicap record held on the players home club system (whichever one). Differences in timing occur based on when the clubs systems are sysnched to the EG database - versions and technology impact the timing as well as individual club processes.

In theory this shouldn't matter to a players playing handicapmfor any event as it is the players responsibility to implement downward adjustments ahead ofnthe system.

I wasn't aware how well everything was already networked!

Heres the link to the Survey I took. Gives everyone an idea of what they may want to achieve, and what's being asked. https://www.snapsurveys.com/wh/s.asp?k=149728625515

 

[Jamesbrown]

Been to the focus group this morning at the Warwickshire.
The group consisted of around 40 people.
Half committee members, half golfers.

Ideas where discussed around the slope rating of courses. What formats should count towards handicap. The amount of qualifiers to make your handicap active to deter those who play the bare minimum.
A best 8 rounds out of your previous 20 account to your handicap (but with some provisions of past performance that prevent dodgy handicaps)

these groups are being done worldwide.

Overall it's countries that use one of the 6 handicapping systems across the world.
USGA System is used in north and South America, New Zealand and Asia. So naturally it's looking like an improved USGA system with different countries input on how they would like the system to work.

 

[clubchamp98]

Sounds like a cheats charter to me. Got a board comp in a few weeks, put in some proper naff cards, get a massive handicap rise and you're sorted. Or is that simplifying it too much?

It's a problem at the moment this will make it worse.

 

[Jamesbrown]

It's a problem at the moment this will make it worse.

Theres a lot of focus on bandit handicaps. That was certainly the main thing wanted to be addressed.

 

[Old Skier]

Theres a lot of focus on bandit handicaps. That was certainly the main thing wanted to be addressed.

No system will stop those who protect or manipulate a handicap or stop those who complain about bandits.

 

[upsidedown]

Been to the focus group this morning at the Warwickshire.
The group consisted of around 40 people.
Half committee members, half golfers.

Ideas where discussed around the slope rating of courses. What formats should count towards handicap. The amount of qualifiers to make your handicap active to deter those who play the bare minimum.
A best 8 rounds out of your previous 20 account to your handicap (but with some provisions of past performance that prevent dodgy handicaps)

these groups are being done worldwide.

Overall it's countries that use one of the 6 handicapping systems across the world.
USGA System is used in north and South America, New Zealand and Asia. So naturally it's looking like an improved USGA system with different countries input on how they would like the system to work.

My PP was at the afternoon one and found it very useful and thought provoking. He raised a couple of good question which he was asked to stay behind and expand on .

 

[clubchamp98]

Theres a lot of focus on bandit handicaps. That was certainly the main thing wanted to be addressed.

If you played five times a week and I know guys who do this in a regular four ball ,
in a bad spell you could double or half your hcap in a fortnight.
This is surely a nightmare for the people who do the cards the workload is enormous.
at my club it's like a comp every day the amount of golfers.

 

[rulefan]

Don't Americans have tournament handicap separate to normal handicap?

No but tournament scores have more effect on the handicap.