Gender Free Tees

[huds1475]

Our club is apparently going to introduce these next year. Interested as to how it would work in a comp?

Anybody experienced and does it actually make the game more inclusive.

http://www.englandgolf.org/news.asp...ee+way&sitesectionid=38&sitesectiontitle=News

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Doesn't each set of tees have its own SSS/CSS. No idea how it works for ladies playing off longer tees and assume it may need a different number but that aside(and I don't have a scooby about that sort of stuff) I think it's a fantastic idea. Isn't this already the done thing in the US anyway and providing people can park their egos they'd surely get a more enjoyable experience especially on away courses

 

[Capella]

We have four different sets of tees on the course (red, black, yellow and white from front to back) and the black ones have been rated for male and female players last year (before that they were just the longer ladies' tees). While I totally like the idea of it and also think that a lot of the male higher handicappers and especially many of the seniors (my dad included) could profit a lot from using them, I have yet to see a single guy teeing off from the blacks. They just won't.

 

[huds1475]

Sorry if not clear.

Questions were basically;

How would it work in a comp?
Has anybody experienced this?
Does it make the game more inclusive?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

In a comp you would have to ensure any comp score each gender goes of the same tee - don't believe you can have a mix

 

[Hacker Khan]

Sorry if not clear.

Questions were basically;

How would it work in a comp?
Has anybody experienced this?
Does it make the game more inclusive?

No idea
Yes in the US several times
Hopefully but should also help with pace of play.

 

[Capella]

How would it work in a comp?

This I can only answer for Germany, because the rating of golf courses seems to work slightly different here. Each set of tees has a course rating (basically the SSS) and a slope rating, which determines how many extra shots are granted to or subtracted from a specific handicap. For example, if a woman with a handicap of -26 plays off the blacks at our home course, she gets 32 shots for the course, so six more than her handicap would give her. From the shorter red tees she gets 31 (it's a hard course ). A guy with a handicap of -26 playing off the black tees gets only 25 shots, but he gets 31 when he is playing off the longer yellow ones. In Germany every course comes with a ridiculously long table matching different handicaps to actual shots granted for the different tees. Like here. Spain does it in a very similar way, for example. No idea how this would work in the UK, though, where afaik you do have the SSS but no slope rating.

Has anybody experienced this?

see above post ... not really because it is not put into practice by the members, despite the opportunity being there

Does it make the game more inclusive?

not without a huge change in the mindset of the players

 

[Foxholer]

In a comp you would have to ensure any comp score each gender goes of the same tee - don't believe you can have a mix

There is no reason why a mix of tees can't be used! If different Genders can play off different tees in the same competition, then there's no reason why it shouldn't apply intra-gender as well! An adjustment according to the SSS is made in order for the competition to be equitable. Whether separate CSSs for each Tee should be calculated is to be determined, but that was what happened at an old club which ran mixed comps - where Ladies played off Reds and Men off White (which were moved to Yellow in Winter).

 

[huds1475]

No idea
Yes in the US several times
Hopefully but should also help with pace of play.

Interesting. So unlikely to unlock Saturday comps for example but could make for a few more mixed individual comps?

 

[duncan mackie]

Sorry if not clear.

Questions were basically;

How would it work in a comp?
Has anybody experienced this?
Does it make the game more inclusive?

You work out scores relative to SSS for competitive purposes - as you do currently for mixed competitions. However, as Phil says you can't currently run Q comps where players play of their tee of choice rather than a set male and female tee for the competition.

Outside of Q comps anyone can do it (and we frequently do on swindles etc as well as the occasional odd comp where we swap tees with the ladies and adjust handicap etc). Whilst we have 4 measured courses we only play off one set of tees for any given competition.

For social play it works - except that egos and competitive elements get in the way as usual (both men and ladies!). It doesn't work for competitive golf because not all golfers have the same underlying capabilities and it's silly to suggest that this doesn't come into it. If you set the pins for the conditions and the back tees then players can choose to play off a course some 600 yds shorter for a cost of 3 strokes (generally) and be hitting 3-4clubs less into each green (yes a well laid out course will not make it that straight forward from the tee but the principle is sound - maybe it's worse than that with a player able to take all the hazards out of play from the forward tees!).
Is it more inclusive in competition - no; many competitive golfers simply won't play because they perceive that others playing of other tees will have an advantage over them!

Should clubs permit people to play from their choice of tee - to me that's already a no - brainer but I do understand that not all clubs permit it (we do - anyone can play from any tee) but it shouldn't be confused with competition (should clubs run competitions from different tees from time to time -again yes IMO) shouldn't only be vets from yellows, ladies from red and men from the back tees; but options within the same comp is going to far.

 

[louise_a]

In principle this is a sensible idea, however there are a few things to take into account apart for the SSS. The par of the hole is one women's par 3s are generally less than 200 yds, par 4s less than 400, so separate pars would be required. Also carries to fairways would have to be taken into account, I haven't played many holes where the carry from the reds is more than 120 yds.

 

[Ethan]

Weekend Comps at Bearwood Lakes include men and women. Men usually off whites, occasionally blacks, and women off reds. Different SSS and CSS for each tee but results based on best nett or points regardless of gender.

 

[louise_a]

Weekend Comps at Bearwood Lakes include men and women. Men usually off whites, occasionally blacks, and women off reds. Different SSS and CSS for each tee but results based on best nett or points regardless of gender.

If its based on best net score, then the difference in SSS should be taken into account before playing.
for stableford any difference between the relative par and SSS should be used to calculate any handicap adjustment

 

[huds1475]

Thanks all, some useful feedback.

much appreciated :thup:

 

[Ethan]

If its based on best net score, then the difference in SSS should be taken into account before playing.
for stableford any difference between the relative par and SSS should be used to calculate any handicap adjustment

You would think that, but they aren't.

 

[Sats]

I think it's a great idea, you just have to eliminate peoples mindsets that the reds is the 'Ladies' tee