World Handicap System

[rulefan]

If there are a series of competitions, all part of an overall competition and this stretches over the transition to WHS, which stroke allowances are used? The original ones from the start of the competition as stated in the rules, or the new ones? Thinking about the changes in percentages to get playing handicap here.

I would suggest it's upto the committee. Playing handicap doesn't affect handicap results, only prizes.

 

[rulie]

I would suggest it's upto the committee. Playing handicap doesn't affect handicap results, only prizes.

As a player who has lived with daily handicap updates for several years, my experience says that committees use the player's current handicap on the day of each round/match when the competitions extend over weeks or months. If the competition is on consecutive days, then the first day's handicap is used, ie, no change during that type of competition.

 

[YandaB]

As a player who has lived with daily handicap updates for several years, my experience says that committees use the player's current handicap on the day of each round/match when the competitions extend over weeks or months. If the competition is on consecutive days, then the first day's handicap is used, ie, no change during that type of competition.

I was more thinking about the Handicap Allowance (always better to use the correct term now I have found it). So for individual strokeplay it's going from 100% to 95% and perhaps the competition is best 2 scores out of 3 when each round is played a month apart (October, November, December), those doing well in October will have an advantage (more so those with higher handicaps). Not sure if it will really make much difference in practice. If there is no specific guidance then what rulefan says seems the only reasonable thing to do, let the committee decide.

 

[rulie]

I was more thinking about the Handicap Allowance (always better to use the correct term now I have found it). So for individual strokeplay it's going from 100% to 95% and perhaps the competition is best 2 scores out of 3 when each round is played a month apart (October, November, December), those doing well in October will have an advantage (more so those with higher handicaps). Not sure if it will really make much difference in practice. If there is no specific guidance then what rulefan says seems the only reasonable thing to do, let the committee decide.

It's up to the committee to provide the required guidance.

 

[rulefan]

As a player who has lived with daily handicap updates for several years, my experience says that committees use the player's current handicap on the day of each round/match when the competitions extend over weeks or months. If the competition is on consecutive days, then the first day's handicap is used, ie, no change during that type of competition.

That is the practice here.
CONGU
1. In a competition such as a 36hole or 72-hole competition played in the same day or over a number
of days within a short period of time the handicap of a player applying at the beginning of a competition
shall apply throughout the duration of the competition. CONGU® strongly recommends that ‘a short
period of time’ be interpreted as being on the same or consecutive days and that anything else
represents ‘an extended period of time’.
2. In a competition where individual rounds are over an extended period of time and there has been
the opportunity to compete in other unrelated competitions between rounds, a player must play from
the handicap current at the time of entry for each of the individual rounds of the competition.

But I would suggest this situation is different in that two different handicap systems will be in operation and the handicaps may not be exactly equivalent. eg If the player has less than 20 returns.

 

[IanM]

This week communication from the club started about the WHS. Wales golf say their Player Portal goes live and you will be able to access your Handicap Index. (then there are a bundle of caveats which lead me to expect "carnage!" Our club has already asked that queries go the WGU Office, not them!

This weekend is the last qualifier of the year. Can't go there due to local lockdowns. With all the Covid disruption and pairs events, I've posted the massive total of 4 qualifying cards in 2020. We don't start qualifiers again till March. I wonder if I'll be allowed to play my club by then?

 

[pmgolfer99]

Does anyone know how net double bogey works with initial handicap allocation - i.e. you need a handicap to calculate net double bogey, so for the initial 3 rounds do they just not do net double bogey? Or is there something like in the CONGU system now which limits what you can score on a hole for your initial rounds.

Relevant for people like me who have a handicap but less than 20 rounds, so presumably the initial handicapping rounds will still be taken into account for the new WHS handicap index?

 

[rosecott]

Does anyone know how net double bogey works with initial handicap allocation - i.e. you need a handicap to calculate net double bogey, so for the initial 3 rounds do they just not do net double bogey? Or is there something like in the CONGU system now which limits what you can score on a hole for your initial rounds.

Relevant for people like me who have a handicap but less than 20 rounds, so presumably the initial handicapping rounds will still be taken into account for the new WHS handicap index?

Net double bogey is not part of the process of initial handicap allocation. You may be thinking of scores greater than double par being reduced to double par.

 

[pmgolfer99]

Net double bogey is not part of the process of initial handicap allocation. You may be thinking of scores greater than double par being reduced to double par.

Thanks - yes that's right. My question was whether there is something similar for WHS? Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but have seen lots of mentions of net double bogey

 

[Colin L]

Thanks - yes that's right. My question was whether there is something similar for WHS? Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but have seen lots of mentions of net double bogey

The maximum score for a hole for an initial WHS handicap is par +5. For an initial CONGU handicap it was double par.. Once you have a WHS handicap, the maximum counting score at a hole ise a net doube bogey

I can't imagine that the calculation of your new Handicap Index will differentiate between initial and later rounds but that's just an educated guess.

 

[rulefan]

Relevant for people like me who have a handicap but less than 20 rounds, so presumably the initial handicapping rounds will still be taken into account for the new WHS handicap index?

If you have fewer than 20 rounds I believe the following will apply

 

[jim8flog]

Does anyone know how net double bogey works with initial handicap allocation - i.e. you need a handicap to calculate net double bogey, so for the initial 3 rounds do they just not do net double bogey? Or is there something like in the CONGU system now which limits what you can score on a hole for your initial rounds.

Relevant for people like me who have a handicap but less than 20 rounds, so presumably the initial handicapping rounds will still be taken into account for the new WHS handicap index?

All rounds since January 2018 will be used to calculate your Handicap Index as they appear in your handicap record. After your first 3 which gave you an initial handicap all hole scores worse than nett double bogey will have been adjusted as each round score has been added to your record and this process will continue with the WHS.

The table in post #151 will continue to apply incrementally until you have a full record of 20 scores.

 

[pmgolfer99]

Thanks all, very helpful!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But your rollups are not q-comps, so what difference does it make to the handicapping system and who gives you a NR?

I and others were told yesterday that as our rollup is an organised comp our scores will be included in our moving 20. As it happens as we play individual stableford scoring I don’t NR as such if i pick up on any hole as long as i enter play my card on the system. Thinking I’ll just go with it as a compromise to our rollup tee reservations being maintained.

Issue I think is largely one of perception because we in UK have always had a clear distinction about golf that counts towards handicap and other golf. Under new system ALL organised competitive golf should count towards my HI calculation. And I can see why as HIs should become more reflective of ability and less prone to manipulation.

The issue my rollup friends have is calling our rollup comp a ‘qualifier‘ with all that that has implied. When in fact it is just one round included in our 20 rounds moving window, and whereas every qualifier would be used towards or handicap only 8 out of 20 in the window now do - so a good rollup round will only impact HI if it is one of 8 best. A rubbish one won’t impact my HI at all other than in an indirect way if i have a long period of rubbish golf - and clearly then it is accurately reflective of my golf - Whereas previously a rubbish score would have impacted directly.

Gimmes not allowed? Well we will just have to say we have to avoid marking our ball and associated faffing about for putts that previously would have been gimmes to avoid slowing everything down. Just quickly hole out as jim8flog says.

 

[nickjdavis]

I think, that as players get used to the new system, there may well be a shifting of opinion, and unless roll up groups are playing some odd format that doesn't lend itself to what I will loosely term "standard scoring methods", or a format that encourages players to take more risks than they would in a normal round of golf (i.e. perhaps encouraging them to play in a way that might not be "playing to score the best score possible") it may well be that six months down the line such groups are more receptive of having their scores incorporated as "acceptable scores" for handicapping.

This may be especially true where such roll ups and "informal" groups tend to mainly play off the yellow or non competition tees, where historically, there has been no really fair way of "adjusting" a players handicap to take account of the fact that the handicap will have largely been maintained by play off the competition tees.

My own view is that handicap secretaries are going to have enough work to do in the early days of the new systems operation and to have the distraction of two or three additional sets of cards a week to verify scores is perhaps asking a bit too much of them, especially in clubs where the handicap secretary and committee are purely volunteers who have other commitments outside of golf. Any committee who is demanding that the scores we are discussing are included in a players record have either misinterpreted the intention of the new system or are very confident indeed of their abilities to manage the additional influx of scores.

As an example of possible additional work over the next few weeks... there will be many instances where the handicap index allocated to players with perhaps less than idea scoring records (very few scores, or perhaps scores that are mainly from a a year or two ago) is not truly representative of the players current ability. Handicap committees surely have a duty to review the indexes that are allocated to their players to ensure they are representative of their ability....they may have already done that under CONGU, but the new WHS wont know that and may allocate an incorrect handicap. Yes players have been widely encouraged to put in cards over the last year to ensure they have a representative scoring record but anyone who falls back on that as an argument is simply living in cloud cuckoo land, a significant number of players are not going to change their "playing habits" simply because some faceless authority who they have no dealings with tells them it is in their best interests to do so.

 

[rulefan]

We have to remember it is a different handicapping system intended for all year round play. (Except when there is an 'off season' imposed).

Presumably some are concerned that if they play a lot of poor condition winter golf their handicap will go up. But conversely, during great summer conditions their handicaps will come down.
Committed winter players will start the summer comps with a competitive handicap advantage over the 'stay indoors when it's wet' players.

But to the point re roll-ups, surely players are playing to the best of their ability and their handicaps should reflect that. If they are not playing to their ability why are they bothering to play in what would be considered to be a 'competitive' situation?

 

[Bwgan]

I'm just having a go at calculating my Handicap Index, is this correct?
Grey bits just copied out of HDID
Then really "Adj score" column is CSS+Nett Diff+H'cap (to get rid of anything more than double bogey)
And then playing H'cap is (Adj score-CR)*113/Slope

Does that seem right? I seem to be getting a HI of 11.66 which will give me course shots of 14 (similar to now)

 

[Old Skier]

What are people going to do if their maths don’t agree with EG maths when their HC index is published.

 

[Colin L]

The column labelled Playing Handicap should be Score Differential. I'm with you up to the point of agreeing with your Score Differential figures, but even just a look at them should make you question an average of 11.66.
I make the average and thus your Handicap index to be 14.1 which would give you 17 strokes on your white course and 16 on your yellow one.

 

[Bwgan]

The column labelled Playing Handicap should be Score Differential. I'm with you up to the point of agreeing with your Score Differential figures, but even just a look at them should make you question an average of 11.66.
I make the average and thus your Handicap index to be 14.1 which would give you 17 strokes on your white course and 16 on your yellow one.

Thanks for looking Colin.
Sorry I didn't paste the whole sheet I was just making sure I was getting the Adjustment score correct and then the whole de-sloping. The ave. of 8 is the easy bit