World Handicap System

[jim8flog]

Is the list of 2.1a in respect of WHS or the Rules of Golf? Our rollup comp is an organised s/ford comp - though not one organised by the club as it is organised by the rollup. However in any strokeplay (medal or s/ford) comp gimmes are not allowed as players must hole out to avoid NR for the hole. Therefore our rollup comp is not an authorised format and therefore cannot be a qualifier....unless we are told we must change the format to make it so

My comment was to fenwayrich re his comment about ladies playing 14 hole comps.

 

[rulie]

28
2.1a Played in an Authorized Format of Play

Authorized formats of play are:
Format of Play Type of Round Number of Holes
Individual stroke play
Organized competition 9 18
General play 9 18
Stableford — organized competition 9 18
Stableford — general play 9 18
Par/Bogey — organized competition 9 18
Par/Bogey — general play 9 18
Maximum Score — organized competition 9 18
Maximum Score — general play 9 18

I suppose 14 hole competitions could be scaled up using Rule 3 but my interpretation of that Rule is impose penalty scores in a 18 hole competition.

What does "authorized formats" mean? "Authorized" for what, handicap posting? It doesn't seem to say "mandated" for handicap posting.

 

[jim8flog]

What does "authorized formats" mean? "Authorized" for what, handicap posting? It doesn't seem to say "mandated" for handicap posting.

As this was a response to somebody else querying about handicapping and authorised formats this is a cut and paste from the Rules of Handicapping.

 

[rulefan]

What does "authorized formats" mean? "Authorized" for what, handicap posting? It doesn't seem to say "mandated" for handicap posting.

Different national authorities distinguish between different forms of play when specifying which scores may be returned for handicap purposes. Scores from formats not listed in the national authority's manual are 'not authorised' for handicapping. The ones in the list are. This doesn't mean that scores from list forms must be returned, only that they may be returned.
The USGA manual lists more than the CONGU manual.

 

[rulie]

Different national authorities distinguish between different forms of play when specifying which scores may be returned for handicap purposes. Scores from formats not listed in the national authority's manual are 'not authorised' for handicapping. The ones in the list are. This doesn't mean that scores from list forms must be returned, only that they may be returned.
The USGA manual lists more than the CONGU manual.

So "authorized" has nothing to do with how groups want to play their swindles or roll-ups, but only those formats where scores may be entered for handicapping purposes?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A thought on our rollups concerns, If we continue playing as we do - with gimmes being given - then my rollup round will be a NR - and NR rounds are not going to count towards my HI becasue they are not going to be in my selected best rounds...

Until I get 'biffed' for posting too many NRs in q-comps...

 

[rulie]

A thought on our rollups concerns, If we continue playing as we do - with gimmes being given - then my rollup round will be a NR - and NR rounds are not going to count towards my HI becasue they are not going to be in my selected best rounds...

Until I get 'biffed' for posting too many NRs in q-comps...

But your rollups are not q-comps, so what difference does it make to the handicapping system and who gives you a NR?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Surely it depends on the roll-up format of play. Our are teams of 4 with 2 scores to count per hole (stableford). Teams drawn on the day. All puts holed for a score to count.

As such this is not an acceptable format for WHS and the scores don't count.

The problem with roll-ups, swindles, etc is they are all different and specific to the club where they are played.

 

[Swango1980]

But your rollups are not q-comps, so what difference does it make to the handicapping system and who gives you a NR?

The issue is, they are not at moment, but his club are demanding they are once we go to WHS

 

[Swango1980]

A thought on our rollups concerns, If we continue playing as we do - with gimmes being given - then my rollup round will be a NR - and NR rounds are not going to count towards my HI becasue they are not going to be in my selected best rounds...

Until I get 'biffed' for posting too many NRs in q-comps...

Players have a responsibility to play to their best for handicapping. By playing gimmes, you are refusing to play to the rules of golf.

As a result, not only will the club force you to submit these rounds for handicap against your wishes, by continuing to play gimmes, they will have grounds to discipline players. In fact, as players could continually NR holes because they played a gimme, the club would have no choice but to really suspend your handicaps I suspect. Because, especially players who mainly play in these roll ups compared to other comps, these rounds with NR gimmes will feature in their best 8 rounds.

 

[rulie]

The issue is, they are not at moment, but his club are demanding they are once we go to WHS

It's not the WHS, it's the national handicapping authority that is making those "demands".
It my club were to demand that of our groups, it wouldn't be "my club" much longer.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Players have a responsibility to play to their best for handicapping. By playing gimmes, you are refusing to play to the rules of golf.

As a result, not only will the club force you to submit these rounds for handicap against your wishes, by continuing to play gimmes, they will have grounds to discipline players. In fact, as players could continually NR holes because they played a gimme, the club would have no choice but to really suspend your handicaps I suspect. Because, especially players who mainly play in these roll ups compared to other comps, these rounds with NR gimmes will feature in their best 8 rounds.

A club won't have many members left if they try to do this.

 

[Old Skier]

Players have a responsibility to play to their best for handicapping. By playing gimmes, you are refusing to play to the rules of golf.

As a result, not only will the club force you to submit these rounds for handicap against your wishes, by continuing to play gimmes, they will have grounds to discipline players. In fact, as players could continually NR holes because they played a gimme, the club would have no choice but to really suspend your handicaps I suspect. Because, especially players who mainly play in these roll ups compared to other comps, these rounds with NR gimmes will feature in their best 8 rounds.

Didn't SILH say these are NOT comps organised by the club or committee therefore there is no requirement for the cards to be treated for handicap purposes and there is nothing in EG WHS rules that suggests otherwise.

 

[Swango1980]

Didn't SILH say these are NOT comps organised by the club or committee therefore there is no requirement for the cards to be treated for handicap purposes and there is nothing in EG WHS rules that suggests otherwise.

That was his argument, and his fellow players, after his club said they needed to be submitted for handicap

 

[Swango1980]

It's not the WHS, it's the national handicapping authority that is making those "demands".
It my club were to demand that of our groups, it wouldn't be "my club" much longer.

His club believe it is the handicapping authority, but I suspect his club have taken the wording too literally. I suspect that is. I doubt the handicapping authority would demand players change the way they play their "fun" comps purely so that the rounds can count towards handicap

 

[rulie]

His club believe it is the handicapping authority, but I suspect his club have taken the wording too literally. I suspect that is. I doubt the handicapping authority would demand players change the way they play their "fun" comps purely so that the rounds can count towards handicap

Pure speculation here, but maybe the club and/or handicapping authority feel they are losing some of their "authority"?

 

[Old Skier]

Pure speculation here, but maybe the club and/or handicapping authority feel they are losing some of their "authority"?

Some may say that's not a bad thing.

 

[rulefan]

Some may say that's not a bad thing.

Of course, there is no compulsion to have a handicap or even join a club.

 

[jim8flog]

A thought on our rollups concerns, If we continue playing as we do - with gimmes being given - then my rollup round will be a NR - and NR rounds are not going to count towards my HI becasue they are not going to be in my selected best rounds...

Until I get 'biffed' for posting too many NRs in q-comps...

One comment that has been made many a time in the group I play in is " if you are close enough for it to me a gimme why not putt it out"

If you only have one or two NRs on the card they could still still be best cards overall.

 

[YandaB]

If there are a series of competitions, all part of an overall competition and this stretches over the transition to WHS, which stroke allowances are used? The original ones from the start of the competition as stated in the rules, or the new ones? Thinking about the changes in percentages to get playing handicap here.