World Cup 2018

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Its quite interesting the debate on Kane.
I don't think he was injured he just got tired as the tournament went on.
He was dropped into midfield behind Sterling probably to accommodate Sterling which opens up another can of worms regarding Rashford and Vardy.
Against Columbia I believe he could easily have been substituted but he was kept on to take a penalty,why,because Vardy couldn't or wouldn't take one.
He could easily not of started today either as he was shot.

It also begs the question can South gate make massive decisions.
Martin Keown was raving about South gate saying " he's not afraid to make big decisions ",but regarding Kane I think he was.
We over achieved, nobody doubts that, but like you say, I do hope it doesn’t mean we’re not honest about all the squad.
Once the dust settles I would hope Southgate will go over all the games, decisions, players, what worked, what didn’t and he learns from it, even if he got some things wrong.
Too many positives not to take the ugly decisions.
 

NWJocko

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We over achieved, nobody doubts that, but like you say, I do hope it doesn’t mean we’re not honest about all the squad.
Once the dust settles I would hope Southgate will go over all the games, decisions, players, what worked, what didn’t and he learns from it, even if he got some things wrong.
Too many positives not to take the ugly decisions.

Did England really over achieve though?

In terms of stage in the competition reached probably beyond most expectations but you beat the teams you would expect to beat and lost to the teams that most would suspect are slightly ahead.

I'd say England performed pretty much to expectations in terms of results, just that circumstances meant they got to the semi's (this is in no way knocking them I'd love us to do the same but never going to happen as we're too rubbish to even get to the point of taking advantage of a good draw!)

Re Kane, he didn't shine as England really created nothing from open play and, the way Southgate had the team set up, Sterling was often the furthest forward with Kane dropping off a little. Wouldn't say he "failed" by any stretch and to get 6 goals from such little service (the total fluke aside) is pretty good.

Great platform for you to improve going forward though, be interesting to see if any of the young attacking players from the Youth World Cup winning sides can get a shot.
 

HomerJSimpson

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Great platform for you to improve going forward though, be interesting to see if any of the young attacking players from the Youth World Cup winning sides can get a shot.

It depends largely on the big PL teams and whether they allow these players to play their way into the first team or if they are farmed out to a championship side and therefore out of any England reckoning. That has been an issue for many years now and these big sides all seem to have a long list of young and talented players but how many are really breaking through?
 
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Did England really over achieve though?

In terms of stage in the competition reached probably beyond most expectations but you beat the teams you would expect to beat and lost to the teams that most would suspect are slightly ahead.

I'd say England performed pretty much to expectations in terms of results, just that circumstances meant they got to the semi's (this is in no way knocking them I'd love us to do the same but never going to happen as we're too rubbish to even get to the point of taking advantage of a good draw!)

Re Kane, he didn't shine as England really created nothing from open play and, the way Southgate had the team set up, Sterling was often the furthest forward with Kane dropping off a little. Wouldn't say he "failed" by any stretch and to get 6 goals from such little service (the total fluke aside) is pretty good.

Great platform for you to improve going forward though, be interesting to see if any of the young attacking players from the Youth World Cup winning sides can get a shot.

We over achieved from what we expected prior to the tournament, yes other teams fell away during the tournament and opened the draw up to our benefit.

I’d disagree with the results going as expected, both games against Belgium were pointless (although I’d agree they were a better side) we never played their first 11 against ours.

Croatia were/are behind us in the World Rankings, they finished 2nd in qualifying and we should of seen them off in the first half.

As for Kane, even the media are making excuses for him, “overall he’s been disappointing but he’ll be pleased with the golden boot” “he lost confidence somewhere along the tournament” and those excuses were on MOTD.

As for the 6 goals, 3 were penalties, the fluke and the other 2 in the first game, no one complained about the lack of service in that game or the one after when we got 6, the focus has been on Sterling or as you’ve put, it was the way the team was set up.

Therefore, I agree with your last sentence, but that can only happen if the issues were/are recognised, even today I was disappointed to see Kane and Sterling as the front 2, looking at the future he should off given a different 11 a start.
 

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We over achieved from what we expected prior to the tournament, yes other teams fell away during the tournament and opened the draw up to our benefit.

I’d disagree with the results going as expected, both games against Belgium were pointless (although I’d agree they were a better side) we never played their first 11 against ours.

Croatia were/are behind us in the World Rankings, they finished 2nd in qualifying and we should of seen them off in the first half.

As for Kane, even the media are making excuses for him, “overall he’s been disappointing but he’ll be pleased with the golden boot” “he lost confidence somewhere along the tournament” and those excuses were on MOTD.

As for the 6 goals, 3 were penalties, the fluke and the other 2 in the first game, no one complained about the lack of service in that game or the one after when we got 6, the focus has been on Sterling or as you’ve put, it was the way the team was set up.

Therefore, I agree with your last sentence, but that can only happen if the issues were/are recognised, even today I was disappointed to see Kane and Sterling as the front 2, looking at the future he should off given a different 11 a start.

Which were both from corners iirc rather than some flowing moves that he's finished off? Sort of proving my point

The media down here are absolutely bonkers when it comes to the England team tbh (looking at objectively) so wouldn't really put too much stock into what they say, even less so World Rankings. Looking at the teams are you really saying you would expect Englands "first XI" to beat both Belgium and Croatia? Both teams at times in this tournament have played football that looks like a different sport to what England have played!

Obviously there are weaknesses in Englands team, but looking at the future who should have started up front? Wellbeck and Vardy? Not many young players in the squad and, tbh, most of the replacements for the first XI (maybe Rashford aside) offer nothing more (and maybe not as much as) those playing in the team IMO.

Hey ho, not sure why I tend to end up defending the England team on here at times :rofl:
 
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Which were both from corners iirc rather than some flowing moves that he's finished off? Sort of proving my point

The media down here are absolutely bonkers when it comes to the England team tbh (looking at objectively) so wouldn't really put too much stock into what they say, even less so World Rankings. Looking at the teams are you really saying you would expect Englands "first XI" to beat both Belgium and Croatia? Both teams at times in this tournament have played football that looks like a different sport to what England have played!

Obviously there are weaknesses in Englands team, but looking at the future who should have started up front? Wellbeck and Vardy? Not many young players in the squad and, tbh, most of the replacements for the first XI (maybe Rashford aside) offer nothing more (and maybe not as much as) those playing in the team IMO.

Hey ho, not sure why I tend to end up defending the England team on here at times :rofl:
I’d certainly expect to give Belgium a proper game with our best 11 and Croatia, we can see at the end at the end of the year.
Not sure about the number of young players point as we had the youngest squad at the World Cup, Young was our oldest player at 32 I believe.
Prior to the World Cup I’d of took Southgate getting us to the knockout stage, Q/F at most, great experience, style of football etc.

I don’t think we are weak up front, Kane + a.n. other is enough, it was the back up to him and Sterling that we were missing, Alli and Lingard aren’t the answer, it needs someone with vision supporting Henderson.

That was best I’ve seen Henderson perform and I think he stepped up and tried to be creative, is normal game is solid, simple passes with a few attempts at long balls or passes, he tried to release the front 2.

There are some young players on the fringe, Trent A-A, Gomez when fit, Solanke, Davies, Foden, Kenny, Lookman, Sessegnon, Abrahams, whether some or all of these are given a chance we wait and see.
 

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I’d certainly expect to give Belgium a proper game with our best 11 and Croatia, we can see at the end at the end of the year.
Not sure about the number of young players point as we had the youngest squad at the World Cup, Young was our oldest player at 32 I believe.
Prior to the World Cup I’d of took Southgate getting us to the knockout stage, Q/F at most, great experience, style of football etc.

I don’t think we are weak up front, Kane + a.n. other is enough, it was the back up to him and Sterling that we were missing, Alli and Lingard aren’t the answer, it needs someone with vision supporting Henderson.

That was best I’ve seen Henderson perform and I think he stepped up and tried to be creative, is normal game is solid, simple passes with a few attempts at long balls or passes, he tried to release the front 2.

There are some young players on the fringe, Trent A-A, Gomez when fit, Solanke, Davies, Foden, Kenny, Lookman, Sessegnon, Abrahams, whether some or all of these are given a chance we wait and see.

Of course you can give them a game (even we win some games against better teams (which most are tbf)) but Belgium and Croatia both have a far higher quality of creative player IMO which is what England are missing, indeed that was the difference across the games (regardless of line ups).

Re younger players I wasn't clear but specifically referring to forwards as you mentioned leaving Kane and Sterling out to "look to the future"

Anyway, going back to self imposed exile on footy threads on here, enjoy :thup:
 
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Of course you can give them a game (even we win some games against better teams (which most are tbf)) but Belgium and Croatia both have a far higher quality of creative player IMO which is what England are missing, indeed that was the difference across the games (regardless of line ups).

Re younger players I wasn't clear but specifically referring to forwards as you mentioned leaving Kane and Sterling out to "look to the future"

Anyway, going back to self imposed exile on footy threads on here, enjoy :thup:
Nice to have a sensible discussion mate, cheers :thup:

Sorry if it confused you, I meant leaving Sterling and Kane out today and see a different combination up front if required if Kane and Sterling were unavailable over the next few months/years, injury or form etc

Vardy is 31 so can’t see him at another World Cup.
Kane and Sterling are 24 & 23 so I’d imagine that’s our front 2 for the foreseeable as Southgate stuck with them throughout.
 
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We over achieved, nobody doubts that, but like you say, I do hope it doesn’t mean we’re not honest about all the squad.
Once the dust settles I would hope Southgate will go over all the games, decisions, players, what worked, what didn’t and he learns from it, even if he got some things wrong.
Too many positives not to take the ugly decisions.

i do.

How can you over acheive by struggling to beat Tunisia,beating a load of muppets in Panama,losing deliberately to Belgium, scrapping through on pens against colombia, beating an average side in Sweden, then struggling against Croatia???
 
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i do.

How can you over acheive by struggling to beat Tunisia,beating a load of muppets in Panama,losing deliberately to Belgium, scrapping through on pens against colombia, beating an average side in Sweden, then struggling against Croatia???
Don’t care what you think about England :ears:
 

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We over achieved, nobody doubts that, but like you say, I do hope it doesn’t mean we’re not honest about all the squad.
Once the dust settles I would hope Southgate will go over all the games, decisions, players, what worked, what didn’t and he learns from it, even if he got some things wrong.
Too many positives not to take the ugly decisions.

Overachieved in terms of getting to a semi but not in a results sense. You beat the teams you were expected to beat and lost against the teams you hoped you would/could beat in Belgium/Croatia.

Plenty positives to take.
 
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i do.

How can you over acheive by struggling to beat Tunisia,beating a load of muppets in Panama,losing deliberately to Belgium, scrapping through on pens against colombia, beating an average side in Sweden, then struggling against Croatia???

I think the over achievement angle comes from reaching the semi finals - which no one expected too

But when taking the teams into perspective and results in other groups the expectation chanegd to reaching the semis - if they didnt then they would have fell short.

There are positives but also should be warnings not to get carried away - heard plenty of talk about the Euros and the team going to win it etc etc - need to fill a lot of holes first before that should be considered
 
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Overachieved in terms of getting to a semi but not in a results sense. You beat the teams you were expected to beat and lost against the teams you hoped you would/could beat in Belgium/Croatia.

Plenty positives to take.

Agreed Martin, I did clarify later that I meant we over achieved from pre-tournament expectations.
 
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I think the over achievement angle comes from reaching the semi finals - which no one expected too

But when taking the teams into perspective and results in other groups the expectation chanegd to reaching the semis - if they didnt then they would have fell short.

There are positives but also should be warnings not to get carried away - heard plenty of talk about the Euros and the team going to win it etc etc - need to fill a lot of holes first before that should be considered

This is the after effect from Hodgson's reign. Every other manager has been expected to get to 1/4's or semi's.

He lowers standards,so by getting through the group stage and beating average teams it then becomes an acheivement.

Crack on celebrating failure though ;)
 
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This is the after effect from Hodgson's reign. Every other manager has been expected to get to 1/4's or semi's.

He lowers standards,so by getting through the group stage and beating average teams it then becomes an acheivement.

Crack on celebrating failure though ;)
You are quality sometimes on here, so when in Brazil we were drawn in the so called group of death and we failed it was hodgson’s fault, now Southgate gets us to a SF and it’s hodgson’s fault! :rofl: you couldn’t make it up.

Has anyone asked were hodgson was when president kennedy was shot? ;)
 
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You are quality sometimes on here, so when in Brazil we were drawn in the so called group of death and we failed it was hodgson’s fault, now Southgate gets us to a SF and it’s hodgson’s fault! :rofl: you couldn’t make it up.

Has anyone asked were hodgson was when president kennedy was shot? ;)

Wow Pauldj42 in over dramatic shocker!!

Where did i blame Hodgson for failure in this world cup?

England's expectations since Capello 2012 have been lowered and that is a fact. 3 failed tournaments under hodgson and England all of a sudden were only expected to get through the group.

Crack on celebrating failure.

SNE :D:D
 
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Wow Pauldj42 in over dramatic shocker!!

Where did i blame Hodgson for failure in this world cup?

England's expectations since Capello 2012 have been lowered and that is a fact. 3 failed tournaments under hodgson and England all of a sudden were only expected to get through the group.

Crack on celebrating failure.

SNE :D:D
Stuart_C in back tracking shocker!

This is the after effect of hodgsons reign, but just to clarify it started with capello :rofl:

When us England fans say we should beat these or win that, we’re arrogant, once the draw came out the sensible fans said Q/F would be acceptable, we get to a S/F and we’re accussed of celebrating failure.

We didn’t make the draw up or force better teams to lose.

I thought it was ok to celebrate top 4 ;)

Make your mind up, Are we arrogant or delusional?
 
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Stuart_C in back tracking shocker!

This is the after effect of hodgsons reign, but just to clarify it started with capello :rofl:
Cappello was expected to win and acheive something
When us England fans say we should beat these or win that, we’re arrogant,
who said that?
once the draw came out the sensible fans said Q/F would be acceptable, we get to a S/F and we’re accussed of celebrating failure.
correct, your boys failed to reach the final

We didn’t make the draw up or force better teams to lose.
Your team purposely lost to play the lesser sides though

I thought it was ok to celebrate top 4 ;)
Never has top 4 been acceptable to celebrate in my book

Make your mind up, Are we arrogant or delusional?

Arrogant or Delusional are your words, id say embarrassing for celebrating failure.

sne :rofl:
 
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Arrogant or Delusional are your words, id say embarrassing for celebrating failure.

sne :rofl:

Again though, who said Capello was expected to win things? That’s the arrogance that annoys non-englishmen.

So 32 teams started out and 30 failed, is that your outlook for all competitions?

How did we purposely lose, we made less changes than the opposition, surely they were the ones looking to lose? :confused:

No genuine England fan is deluded, we enjoyed the ride, accepted the opposition the draw threw up and had a great 3 weeks, it seems the English Football supporters who aren’t bothered (apparently) about the national team are making more of a fuss than the rest. :rofl:
 
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Again though, who said Capello was expected to win things?
The Press, The FA, Fans
That’s the arrogance that annoys non-englishmen.

So 32 teams started out and 30 failed, is that your outlook for all competitions?
No just World Cups and Euro's

How did we purposely lose,
Did you watch that 1st belguim game? No england player wanted to shoot!!
we made less changes than the opposition, surely they were the ones looking to lose? :confused:

No genuine England fan is deluded, we enjoyed the ride, accepted the opposition the draw threw up and had a great 3 weeks, it seems the English Football supporters who aren’t bothered (apparently) about the national team are making more of a fuss than the rest. :rofl:

Im not making a fuss, i disagreed with your post #2501 and you've gone on and on and on since.

I dont think england over acheived, you do. You then started using words like delusional and arrogant to describe you england fans.

Weird bunch celebrating failure :D
 
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