Woolwich soldier killing

[Birchy]

Unfortunately not, neither are you.

Prior to 2001 did you feel at threat from Islamic fundamentalism?

No and i still dont now but the army is there to serve and protect imo and i have to trust people making the decisions are doing it for good reason (thats probably another argument ). I dont have much choice to trust them true but thats irrelevent in this instance imo.

Sending our soldiers out to risk their lives for whatever reason is just utterly ridiculous when on our own shores we wont even stand up to this scum. Its makes my blood boil.

 

[stevie_r]

No and i still dont now but the army is there to serve and protect imo and i have to trust people making the decisions are doing it for good reason (thats probably another argument ). I dont have much choice to trust them true but thats irrelevent in this instance imo.

Sending our soldiers out to risk their lives for whatever reason is just utterly ridiculous when on our own shores we wont even stand up to this scum. Its makes my blood boil.

As far as I am concerned there is no point to the British Army being in Afghanistan, I would have no desire to live under the Taliban regime; however, they were no threat to us what so ever. Now if we were there destroying the poppy harvest I could see the point - that is a real and current threat, but we aren't.

The primary reason we went to war against Saddam (the second time) was supposedly because he had access to WMD and we needed to remove that threat - never found them did we? I remember my wife being mobilised for service in Iraq in the spring of 2003; prior to her deployment I quizzed her as to whether she had been issued two new cannisters for her S10 respirator and a new Nuclear Biological Chemical suit (Standard practise on deployment when there is a NBC threat) - she hadn't. Now doesn't that strike you as really odd?

I feel fortunate that I believed fully in every operational deployment I went on and felt that I was making a positive difference.

So Birchy, you can continue to believe that the powers that be are making decisions in our interest, but please please occasionally remove your head from the sand to take a breath.

 

[mcbroon]

What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs.

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005.

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic.

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain

Terrific post Rod.

Yup. Well said.

 

[User20205]

Before any Irish fellas get twitchy, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate the point.:thup:

I read something pertinent on twitter 'the bigots are reading from the terrorists script'

All they've got are random acts designed to make us turn in on ourselves!

 

[scratch]

there is nowhere to send them back to, most are UK born 2/3 generation. I be all for managed proactive policing/dentention/profiling but this is a dangerous road to go down

Yes some are born and bred 'British' but as stated by others, they have no affinity with this country or it's beliefs and traditions so I don't see how they could complain if they were repatriated to a country whose beliefs and lifestyle they believe in? If they do complain then they are hypocrites.

 

[stevie_r]

Yes some are born and bred 'British' but as stated by others, they have no affinity with this country or it's beliefs and traditions so I don't see how they could complain if they were repatriated to a country whose beliefs and lifestyle they believe in? If they do complain then they are hypocrites.

How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to?

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.

 

[MegaSteve]

How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to?

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.

Qatada would be 'warmly' welcomed elsewhere... So why is he still here?

 

[bladeplayer]

Before any Irish fellas get twitchy, just using a ridiculous example to illustrate the point.:thup:

One thing you sure as hell dont need is a twitchy paddy ................... understand the context you were using it mate no panic

 

[19thagain]

My answer to this is a visual show of solidarity.

Let ALL the troops in the barracks go into the centre of London, in their uniforms in groups of two or three and, as they walk along the street, let everyone there present stand aside and applaud them as they pass!!

This show of appreciation by the public MUST be shown on every news summary, U Tube, etc for days to come.

This will allow the misguided to be aware that a couple of nut cases do not cause fear and indeed their actions only strengthen our resolve.

 

[Birchy]

As far as I am concerned there is no point to the British Army being in Afghanistan, I would have no desire to live under the Taliban regime; however, they were no threat to us what so ever. Now if we were there destroying the poppy harvest I could see the point - that is a real and current threat, but we aren't.

The primary reason we went to war against Saddam (the second time) was supposedly because he had access to WMD and we needed to remove that threat - never found them did we? I remember my wife being mobilised for service in Iraq in the spring of 2003; prior to her deployment I quizzed her as to whether she had been issued two new cannisters for her S10 respirator and a new Nuclear Biological Chemical suit (Standard practise on deployment when there is a NBC threat) - she hadn't. Now doesn't that strike you as really odd?

I feel fortunate that I believed fully in every operational deployment I went on and felt that I was making a positive difference.

So Birchy, you can continue to believe that the powers that be are making decisions in our interest, but please please occasionally remove your head from the sand to take a breath.

I will never have enough evidence in my hands to decide for certain whether we were right to do the above or not so until then i dont really have much choice but to trust the powers that be.

I agree the evidence certainly doesnt look good and we could of been there for all the wrong reasons but theres probably a lot more to it than we will ever know.

Whether these things are just and right or not are irrelevent in what im trying to say though. Theres no point in the army doing the above overseas whether just and correct or not if the issues like yesterday are being allowed to happen.

 

[MetalMickie]

So your privvy to all threats against our national security are you?

Thought not.

Am I to take it that you,on the other hand, believe everything the authorities want us to believe. e.g.Saddam's WMD and Afghanistan was the home of all terrorism.

Hope not.

 

[scratch]

How can you repatriate someone to a place they don't come from and have possibly never even been to?

So the government turns round to any muslim state in the world and says 'Oi, you're having this lot' - yeah, that would work.

Well it seems to me that these people clearly have no desire to be 'British' so let them choose a country that they do want to live in. If they object they then have to ask themselves why they are committing atrocities against their fellow countrymen.

 

[Birchy]

Am I to take it that you,on the other hand, believe everything the authorities want us to believe. e.g.Saddam's WMD and Afghanistan was the home of all terrorism.

Hope not.

No i dont but until i see all the evidence (never happen) its hard to have a definative judgement. Everybody has theories and bits of stories but until you see all the facts in front of you i dont believe we could ever judge it right or wrong.

But once again as per my other posts its all pointless either way if we are going to let this scum do this to us on our own soil.

 

[stevie_r]

Well it seems to me that these people clearly have no desire to be 'British' so let them choose a country that they do want to live in. If they object they then have to ask themselves why they are committing atrocities against their fellow countrymen.

That sounds terrific - can you arrange for me to be sent to St Lucia please? :thup:

 

[USER1999]

The comments on the guardian's web site make interesting reading. The usual apologists out in force.

 

[scratch]

That sounds terrific - can you arrange for me to be sent to St Lucia please? :thup:

OK....but you must promise to embrace the lifestyle!!

 

[Hacker Khan]

What I find unforgivable about this are the bigots using this tragedy as justification for their beliefs.

What happened was shocking because it's incredibly random and incredibly rare; I think I'm correct in saying no one has died in the mainland UK through terrorist activity since 2005.

The domestic threat was probably greater from Irish republicanism. No one was calling for the mass repatriation of the Irish 30 years ago !

No one is defending terrorism or the individuals that commit these acts, and to state that is as moronic as the 'send them home' statement.

The extremist beliefs on both sides are equally toxic.

I hope my kids can grow up in a safe, civilised, multicultural Britain

I find your sensible, considered and well argued response pathetic. As everyone know you should base you response on prejudice, bigotry, ignorance, knee jerk reactions with no thought to the long term consequences and most importantly what you read in The Daily Mail.

 

[Five&One]

Having seen the film clip last night and heard the culprit talking I found my self thinking "terrorist attack - really ?" Doesn't anyone else have the thought that is this simply two psychopathic individuals with no control or perspective or care for consequence who were happy to gratuitously brutalise and behead a victim who may or may not have been selected in advance and then justify the whole thing on some sense of religious injustice. Sorry if its in any way offensive but the bloke came across as being thick as mince and I doubt if he'd know where Pakistan, Somalia and Afghanistan where, far less have a detailed theological objection concerning global oppression of Islam by the Zionist western super powers. To me he's your bog standard highly dangerous killer who kills for the joy and thrill of killing and chants 'Allaha Akbar' as some kind of sick justification and mask for his psychopathy.

Another thing. I know from experience of firearms training that no one who is firearms trained would EVER shoot just to wound or disable a target. As someone who has undergone firearms training and carried firearms in a previous career, unless the engagement rules have changed recently failing to kill the targets from the distance they were shot from was either horrendously bad shooting or a deliberate but highly risky strategy to disable the targets but take them alive. Doing that, in my experience would never be encouraged (old school perhaps). It actually takes a fantastic shot to guarantee immediate immobilisation of a target but not death, in fact you'd use a taser for that long before your use a Gloch pistol. Unless the whole policy has changed very recently they should both be stone dead and the shooter, although publicly being praised will probably privately be torn up for toilet paper for failing to kill targets that close and that dangerous.

 

[stevie_r]

OK....but you must promise to embrace the lifestyle!!

Oh I would

 

[stevie_r]

@five&one - Bit harsh I think mate, although I haven't read any reports or accounts of the shooting I'm pretty sure they would have been aiming at the centre of mass.
A low velocity weapon (9mm?) I would presume in order to minimise the risk of collateral damage, we don't know the range, adrenaline pumping etc. Pretty unlikely to kill someone on the spot with a shot from a pistol unless you hit the heart or one of the major vessels serving it I would have thought.