Winter handicapping

[Pgreenha]

As a member of a handicap committee we have attempted to follow England Golf guidelines in allowing handicap qualifying when the course is compliant. Course length is acceptable off winter tees (yellows & reds) mlr local rules for winter mats are followed, mlr lift clean and replace through the green. As a parkland course the only challenge is temporary greens so this does exclude occasional days from qualifying.
We are challenged why we “count” for handicapping in winter, it is my understanding committees cannot choose to exclude competition if the course & format is compliant but not many clubs seem to follow the guidelines. Curious if this is the case nationally for parkland courses and thoughts on continuing handicapping through winter

 

[D-S]

As a member of a handicap committee we have attempted to follow England Golf guidelines in allowing handicap qualifying when the course is compliant. Course length is acceptable off winter tees (yellows & reds) mlr local rules for winter mats are followed, mlr lift clean and replace through the green. As a parkland course the only challenge is temporary greens so this does exclude occasional days from qualifying.
We are challenged why we “count” for handicapping in winter, it is my understanding committees cannot choose to exclude competition if the course & format is compliant but not many clubs seem to follow the guidelines. Curious if this is the case nationally for parkland courses and thoughts on continuing handicapping through winter

Below are extracts from the summary and detailed Adverse Weather Guidance from EG (the two versions are contradictory in a couple of places but that is a gripe for another time).

It is acceptable for clubs to make scores not acceptable by 'turning off the tees' off if, in the opinion of the committee, the conditions of the course are such that acceptable scoring is not possible. This is the advice clubs are following when they stop 'qualifying' golf in the winter.

Clubs MUST switch off courses and tee sets when:

• conditions mean acceptable scoring is not possible, even
  
  with the Model Local Rules in place

Competitions can still be played when the tee set is switched off but the scores will not be returned for handicap purposes.

Example of course conditions where acceptable scoring may not be possible:

• Frozen ground
• Extensive areas of temporary water or abnormal course conditions where complete relief is not possible
• Excessively soft ground – minimal to no roll

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Our course was effectively bullied into making comps count this winter. Historically we stopped them counting from October to march. Members have made their own choice, we play but don't enter the comps now when previously we would have done. No need for EG to get involved, well done folks

In answer to the question, have you asked your members what they want? I know that sounds glib, it isn't meant to be. We've walked with our feet, so to speak, and if you can avoid that I'd recommend it.

 

[Pgreenha]

Our course was effectively bullied into making comps count this winter. Historically we stopped them counting from October to march. Members have made their own choice, we play but don't enter the comps now when previously we would have done. No need for EG to get involved, well done folks

In answer to the question, have you asked your members what they want? I know that sounds glib, it isn't meant to be. We've walked with our feet, so to speak, and if you can avoid that I'd recommend it.

The reply you have made is the concern that people don’t play in comps. We have as best we can asked as the software doesn’t allow a survey, but a group of 150 returned 62% in favour of handicapping. I understand some newer members can get cards in so are in favour and we mix the formats so only one in three do count so try to balance this. I agree EG causing an issue when the off season worked for parklands

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think mixing counting and non counting is a very fair compromise. The question is whether you can continue without getting your wrists slapped by the county.

You've gone further than most clubs, by asking members, well done

 

[KenL]

Are counting scores allowed when lift, clean and replace through the green is in use?

 

[D-S]

Are counting scores allowed when lift, clean and replace through the green is in use?

Yes, although the wording used is the General Area. It is also recommended that this MLR is only used in distinct named areas not across the entire course.

 

[IanM]

Two local clubs suspend qualifying all winter, even though they don't need to/shouldn’t!

 

[Magcargo]

Seems to be about 50/50 here where clubs turn the tees off all winter. I'm new ish to courses but seems to be a vanity thing to try and protect handicaps, or based on suspicion that people are trying to inflate handicaps. One club seems to turn off markers in WHS during the week then put them back on for comps at a weekend, seems suspicious to me. I want to put all of my rounds through WHS as my scores are still coming down even in winter as I only started with an initial index in October. Another area where some clubs aren't as welcoming to newbies as they should be.

 

[clubchamp98]

Seems to be about 50/50 here where clubs turn the tees off all winter. I'm new ish to courses but seems to be a vanity thing to try and protect handicaps, or based on suspicion that people are trying to inflate handicaps. One club seems to turn off markers in WHS during the week then put them back on for comps at a weekend, seems suspicious to me. I want to put all of my rounds through WHS as my scores are still coming down even in winter as I only started with an initial index in October. Another area where some clubs aren't as welcoming to newbies as they should be.

Most clubs take the tees off the main tee in winter to stop it getting churned up with no grass growing.
Possibly midweek they are so far away from the markers it makes the course no conforming.

The tees need to conform for the comp and that’s why they are put back on the “proper tee.
Nothing suspicious just course management!

When WHS was introduced here most of us knew this would happen.

 

[Magcargo]

Thanks, fairly up to speed on the rules. At this particular club, the tees aren't moved that often and I play across weekdays and weekends, including on comp days. There are times when the tees aren't adjusted between two days yet the markers are switched off in WHS until the comp days, when the tee positions haven't changed.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thanks, fairly up to speed on the rules. At this particular club, the tees aren't moved that often and I play across weekdays and weekends, including on comp days. There are times when the tees aren't adjusted between two days yet the markers are switched off in WHS until the comp days, when the tee positions haven't changed.

Ok right .
The only thing is ask the comittiee why they do this.

 

[Magcargo]

Thanks. Guys in the shop said they don't change them so must be a new committee person or thing. Markers were on all the time (including some that weren't even out) up to a couple of weeks ago, so maybe they have over-responded to a complaint or something. probably doesn't bother most people but as I say, I am trying to put every round through WHS.

 

[twrmgoat]

We don’t ply a rated course between mid Oct and end of March. Parkland course, we play off mats throughout (or move to side). Often can’t differentiate fairway and rough.

Works fine, everyone enjoys their winter golf. No problem from handicap point of view, not difficult to identify a few newish golfers / rapid improvers who need a handicap adjustment at start of season.

Can’t help thinking that much of the drive fir winter qualifiers is about stats and claiming growth in the game, etc rather than about handicap accuracy,

 

[PaulMdj]

We don’t ply a rated course between mid Oct and end of March. Parkland course, we play off mats throughout (or move to side). Often can’t differentiate fairway and rough.

Works fine, everyone enjoys their winter golf. No problem from handicap point of view, not difficult to identify a few newish golfers / rapid improvers who need a handicap adjustment at start of season.

Can’t help thinking that much of the drive fir winter qualifiers is about stats and claiming growth in the game, etc rather than about handicap accuracy,

If it works fine and everyone is enjoying their winter golf, isn’t it unfair to then use said winter golf to cut only selective groups?

Surely after a few weeks of yous reintroducing qualifiers the handicaps will look after themselves?

 

[simsini]

Qualifiers should be played throughout the year. Playing golf in all conditions gives a truer reflection of ability.

 

[KenL]

Qualifiers should be played throughout the year. Playing golf in all conditions gives a truer reflection of ability.

My course is easier in winter as there is no rough. Also less run, so less likely to run into bunkers or onto the beach.

 

[D-S]

My course is easier in winter as there is no rough. Also less run, so less likely to run into bunkers or onto the beach.

My course plays around 1000 yards longer in winter (than it’s summer rated length) and the greens (being parkland) are uneven due to foot prints, greenside chipping is much more difficult due to muddy bare lies - it plays considerably tougher.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Qualifiers should be played throughout the year. Playing golf in all conditions gives a truer reflection of ability.

I'm guessing you don't play on a parkland course? Different beast in winter compared to the rest of the year. Whilst winter can make a links course easier, see @KenL post, a parkland becomes significantly tougher. No run, carry all the way, balls lost in leaves. It doesn't show a true reflection, imo, it distorts someone's h/c

 

[nickjdavis]

Qualifiers should be played throughout the year. Playing golf in all conditions gives a truer reflection of ability.

Cant agree. Yes folks may play off a shortened course. Yes the roll might be much less than summer which may or may not balance out the former.

But the underlying ground conditions when it has been persistently wet makes playing the game and striking the ball cleanly so much more difficult for all but the best of golfers. At the end of the day, golf that affects your handicap should be a fair test, rather than an attritional war against the conditions.