Why Are Our Politicians So Crap?

[Blue in Munich]

These Tories rebelling showed courage and conviction in standing up to Cummings threats. Stand by that.
Intricacies of types of deals or no deals is far more complicated than Joe public can really understand and be simply decided by a binary choice on a vote slip. Last 3 years have demonstrated that, if nothing else. Predict Mays deal will look better and better to leavers as time wears on. You'll recall JRM and BJ both voting for it 3rd time so they have weakened before.
No Deal threat is not a negotiating position either.

This deal?

https://labour.org.uk/issues/six-reasons-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-bad-britain/

The one described by Labour as half-baked?

 

[Old Skier]

These Tories rebelling showed courage and conviction in standing up to Cummings threats. Stand by that.
Intricacies of types of deals or no deals is far more complicated than Joe public can really understand and be simply decided by a binary choice on a vote slip. Last 3 years have demonstrated that, if nothing else. Predict Mays deal will look better and better to leavers as time wears on. You'll recall JRM and BJ both voting for it 3rd time so they have weakened before.
No Deal threat is not a negotiating position either.

If they are so honourable and if the opposition are so keen on a peoples vote then if they really wanted to move on they would support the PM tonight a d vote for a GE.

 

[bobmac]

Mps aren't crap at everything, they are brilliant at screwing the tax payer out of every penny they can get.

 

[clubchamp98]

Well I admire the Tory rebels, courageous in the face of intimidation and bullying from sheer hypocrites in govt. Wake up call for Johnson.
They could all act like sheep and meekly do what they're told but they are showing courage in what they believe in imo and trying to protect the UK people from needless hardship. May's deal is it, either take it or revoke.

I would agree if they did it all the time and were consistent,but they tow the party line to much on matters of people’s lives.
Yes they are brave doing this but I can’t see anyone’s family starving in the near future.
Unlike some of the policies they have voted through over the years.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Really!
If you were a Union convenor and in a wage dispute and you went to the employer saying " I want a good deal from you but you should understand we will not take any industrial action" What kind of offer would you expect to be taking back to the lads?

Alternatively - and possibly closer to our UK leaving the EU scenario

If you were a Union convenor and 20% of the company employees were in your union - in a wage dispute you went to the employer saying " I want a good deal from you but you should understand we will all resign and walk away if you do not give us the wage rise that we want". Given you know that the employer might say "well we'll be very sad to lose you but we cannot afford an increase of any sort and we are confident that we can find replacements if you leave" What kind of offer would you expect to be taking back to the lads?

Negotiation and keeping a walk-away option is OK if you can walk back to where you came from. If we walk away from the EU with No Deal we do not walk back to where we came from. We go back to a very different place.

 

[drdel]

The various 'tribes' have become so entrenched it will take a GE : even then unless there is a method to force MPs to support the relevant manifesto the squabble will continue.

 

[drdel]

Alternatively - and possibly closer to our UK leaving the EU scenario

If you were a Union convenor and 20% of the company employees were in your union - in a wage dispute you went to the employer saying " I want a good deal from you but you should understand we will all resign and walk away if you do not give us the wage rise that we want". Given you know that the employer might say "well we'll be very sad to lose you but we cannot afford an increase of any sort and we are confident that we can find replacements if you leave" What kind of offer would you expect to be taking back to the lads?

Negotiation and keeping a walk-away option is OK if you can walk back to where you came from. If we walk away from the EU with No Deal we do not walk back to where we came from. We go back to a very different place.

Even if we stayed the EU says the game has changed and the UK will pay more for less.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Alternatively - and possibly closer to our UK leaving the EU scenario

If you were a Union convenor and 20% of the company employees were in your union - in a wage dispute you went to the employer saying " I want a good deal from you but you should understand we will all resign and walk away if you do not give us the wage rise that we want". Given you know that the employer might say "well we'll be very sad to lose you but we cannot afford an increase of any sort and we are confident that we can find replacements if you leave" What kind of offer would you expect to be taking back to the lads?

Negotiation and keeping a walk-away option is OK if you can walk back to where you came from. If we walk away from the EU with No Deal we do not walk back to where we came from. We go back to a very different place.

And there your analogy falls apart; they are not going to find another net contributor like us. So actually nothing like the leaving scenario but it suits your personal agenda.

 

[SocketRocket]

Alternatively - and possibly closer to our UK leaving the EU scenario

If you were a Union convenor and 20% of the company employees were in your union - in a wage dispute you went to the employer saying " I want a good deal from you but you should understand we will all resign and walk away if you do not give us the wage rise that we want". Given you know that the employer might say "well we'll be very sad to lose you but we cannot afford an increase of any sort and we are confident that we can find replacements if you leave" What kind of offer would you expect to be taking back to the lads?

Negotiation and keeping a walk-away option is OK if you can walk back to where you came from. If we walk away from the EU with No Deal we do not walk back to where we came from. We go back to a very different place.

I dont think you have a grasp on how negotiations like this work. A convenor would not be negotiating on behalf of the workforce if he had 20% of the employees in his union, he would negotiate for a joint shop stewards comitee who had sent him. The prime minister negotiates on behalf of the British people and parliament who should be backing him and prepared to leave if he gets a bad deal.

 

[bobmac]

Oh goody, another Brexit thread

 

[Doon frae Troon]

When I first started working in local authorities my old boss said of politicians.........A third are there to line their pockets, a third are there to boost their egos, and a third are there because they want to improve people's lives.
I have met with quite a few MP'S and a three or four misters and I would say the same formula applies.

 

[chrisd]

And there your analogy falls apart; they are not going to find another net contributor like us. So actually nothing like the leaving scenario but it suits your personal agenda.

Add the fact that in that analogy the workforce would have to be paying the company to work there.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Add the fact that in that analogy the workforce would have to be paying the company to work there.

Indeed; however he's true to form, never let the truth get in the way of a SILH rant against Brexit.

 

[clubchamp98]

Just watched question time .
It answers perfectly the thread title.
Absolute bunch of ( insert own ) the only one who made any sense was the journalist.

 

[Rlburnside]

Yes I agree that was a painful watch, Fiona Bruce was out of her depth

 

[clubchamp98]

Scottish wombat who interrupted everyone then complained when it happened to him.

Thought the chair was very poor and just could not control them.

 

[Dando]

Just watched question time .
It answers perfectly the thread title.
Absolute bunch of ( insert own ) the only one who made any sense was the journalist.

cant believe Thornberry wants to negotiate a "better deal" with the EU but then vote against it

 

[Old Skier]

Do we really think there is going to be a GE announcement soon? Many of them may start realising that they are unelectable and only a fool would vote any off the 650 back in.

 

[clubchamp98]

cant believe Thornberry wants to negotiate a "better deal" with the EU but then vote against it

Very arrogant of her ( labour ) to decide no deal should not be on the table!
That should be up to the public to decide in a GE , if they let us have one.

 

[drdel]

MP's are crap since the pay is rubbish, hours are rubbish, millions of uniformed 'experts', more than 50% think you're wrong. Result you need a big ego and probably money from somewhere!