Who's decision is it ?

[bladeplayer]

In this months mag there is a nice piece by John Paramore [sp] regarding his disagreement with Seve regarding their opinions on what does / does not constitute an animal burrowing .. In this case big John declared it was not & his decision was final .. Seve accepted that because .. well he had to , as it was the referees decision .. what if this happened in a club or inter club comp with no referee be it stableford, stroke or match play? who has the final say in a group of players when there is doubt ?

 

[CallawayKid]

I think this is a case where you would play two balls and ask for a decision after the round. One ball played as it lies and one played with relief and marked as such on the card.

Does this then fall into the realms of practising on the course though?

Must admit, quite hazy on that one, I'm sure someone will be along shortly with a quote from the bible.

CK

 

[daymond]

Good question. If it's a UK course the choice of burrowing animals comes down to:-
Badgers: pretty obvious
Moles: usually a great big heap of soil
Rabbits: the usual suspects. So, if there are other adjacent scrapes/holes and or droppings it should be reasonable to expect your fellow competitors to agree. However if there is only one scrape without any sign of droppings then there might be enough doubt for any of the competitors to say no. You would do well to play the ball as it lies. If you did not do this any of them might refuse to sign your card.
Others: can't think of any offhand. Oh rats!

 

[Region3]

I'll always ask my playing partners if I think I have a case, but not being one for confrontation I'd agree to not take the drop if they disagreed with me, even if I was fairly sure I was right.

I've been refused a drop before because even though he agreed it was in a scrape, he said I wasn't entitled to relief because I didn't have a full swing, but because I don't like arguing I just carried on.
It was probably worth more to me him denying it than me taking a drop as my 'killer instinct' is non-existent until someone gives me a reason to want to bury them.

 

[AmandaJR]

The angriest and most disappointed I've ever been on a golf course was earlier this year during a "friendly" winter league match. All square going up the last and I pulled my drive into the trees and into what I 100% felt was a rabbit scraping as the area is full of them. It wasn't under or near a tree and was clearly a hole albeit one that was filled with the autmun's conker casings atop which my ball sat (the damned thing). Opponent (prior to that aka "pal") said no...

Lost the hole and the match :angry:

 

[chrisd]

If it's specifically about the burrowing animal then you could do as Callaway has said and ask for a ruling when you get in and before you sign and submit the card, or you could agree and not take relief or give in and play it, all would be ok as far as I can see.

Our competitions are usually played as 3 balls so, I guess, most groups would go for the 2 to 1 vote if there was a disagreement.


Chris

 

[SocketRocket]

If a playing partner thought their ball was in a scrapping then I would tend to allow relief. I hate to think people are cheating.

 

[Crow]

Even if you are in a scraping, if you don't have a realisitc possibility of playing a shot due to being in the middle of bushes, trees etc then you aren't allowed a free drop for relief and will have to take an unplayable penalty.

 

[Mattyboy]

Even if you are in a scraping, if you don't have a realisitc possibility of playing a shot due to being in the middle of bushes, trees etc then you aren't allowed a free drop for relief and will have to take an unplayable penalty.

Is that right? If it is - you learn something every day - even in cat 1! I thought you would get relief regrdless - but do not have (as always with free relief) an option of where to drop it.

 

[Region3]

Is that right? If it is - you learn something every day - even in cat 1! I thought you would get relief regrdless - but do not have (as always with free relief) an option of where to drop it.

Yes, you have to have some kind of shot that would be reasonable to play if the scraping wasn't there.

As an example, your ball is next to a bush with the green on the opposite side...

If you take your stance to hit towards the green and your feet are in scrapings you get no drop because it would not be reasonable to play towards the green with a big bush 12" from your ball on that line.

If you take your stance to hit out sideways and your feet are in scrapings then you get free relief.
If you have clear sight of the green after your drop you can play that shot. You don't have to still play the shot you were claiming to play to get relief.

 

[Mattyboy]

Yes, you have to have some kind of shot that would be reasonable to play if the scraping wasn't there.

As an example, your ball is next to a bush with the green on the opposite side...

If you take your stance to hit towards the green and your feet are in scrapings you get no drop because it would not be reasonable to play towards the green with a big bush 12" from your ball on that line.

If you take your stance to hit out sideways and your feet are in scrapings then you get free relief.
If you have clear sight of the green after your drop you can play that shot. You don't have to still play the shot you were claiming to play to get relief.

Ah - makes sense. think I was thinking of the ball actually being in the scrape in which case relief is available.

Thanks for the guidance.

 

[Region3]

Ah - makes sense. think I was thinking of the ball actually being in the scrape in which case relief is available.

Spot on. If it's the ball in the scrape you get free relief providing you can show that you have some kind of shot.