When should I pick up in a bogey comp?

[cliveb]

I'm fully aware of the various arguments around whether bogey comps should be qualifiers, but don't want to debate that. I'm simply seeking advice over when to pick up in a qualifying bogey comp given the fact I'm about to play in one tomorrow.

Example: I have 1 stroke on a par 4 and have missed my putt for a 5. Therefore have lost the hole. If I pick up now instead of putting out for a 6, will I be given a 7 in my adjusted score differential? In other words, for the sake of my handicap record, should I carry on to get a net single bogey (even though that will slow down play)?

 

[Billysboots]

We’ve at long last managed to drill this into our committee, so that our starter is given the correct competition rules to read out. For years they have been getting it wrong.

If played as a qualifier, you should be instructed to putt out until you can no longer make a nett bogey. If a non qualifier, you should be instructed to continue until you can no longer make a nett par.

 

[Voyager EMH]

We’ve at long last managed to drill this into our committee, so that our starter is given the correct competition rules to read out. For years they have been getting it wrong.

If played as a qualifier, you should be instructed to putt out until you can no longer make a nett bogey. If a non qualifier, you should be instructed to continue until you can no longer make a nett par.

I believe this is correct and was also correct, in practice, before WHS.

Although the "format of play" is matchplay versus par, the score being submitted for handicapping is a strokeplay score.

I like to look at it as a strokeplay game.
Competition scores are then calculated from those strokeplay scores as matchplay versus par.

 

[D-S]

I believe this is correct and was also correct, in practice, before WHS.

Although the "format of play" is matchplay versus par, the score being submitted for handicapping is a strokeplay score.

I like to look at it as a strokeplay game.
Competition scores are then calculated from those strokeplay scores as matchplay versus par.

I think that is a very good way of looking at it in the way the game is played now (as a qualifier).

It is a shame that it is not pure matchplay against the course as this is a little bit different from the normal run of the mill Stableford play.

 

[cliveb]

We’ve at long last managed to drill this into our committee, so that our starter is given the correct competition rules to read out. For years they have been getting it wrong.

If played as a qualifier, you should be instructed to putt out until you can no longer make a nett bogey. If a non qualifier, you should be instructed to continue until you can no longer make a nett par.

Thanks. You're lucky to have a starter who can inform the players. Mine is a fairly small club and we don't have starters (except at opens), so the players are left to fend for themselves. I'll make sure not to pick up too soon.

I believe this is correct and was also correct, in practice, before WHS.

In the old CONGU days, there was a table specifically to convert bogey scores into the appropriate score for handicapping. So you could pick up as soon as you lost the hole - no need to hole out for a net bogey.

 

[Orikoru]

If it's counting for handicap I would be putting out for nett bogeys, absolutely. I know that's at odds with the Bogey format, but that would be your committee's own stupid fault for making a Bogey comp a qualifier.

Moreover, I wouldn't have entered a Bogey comp in the first place because it's a rubbish format.

 

[irip]

If it's counting for handicap I would be putting out for nett bogeys, absolutely. I know that's at odds with the Bogey format, but that would be your committee's own stupid fault for making a Bogey comp a qualifier.

Moreover, I wouldn't have entered a Bogey comp in the first place because it's a rubbish format.

I quite enjoy it as something a bit different.
I like to play lots of different formats as find it more interesting.
Couple a year is enough but I agree it shouldn’t be a qualifier it just seems to add to the confusion of scoring for some players.

 

[Billysboots]

I believe this is correct and was also correct, in practice, before WHS.

Although the "format of play" is matchplay versus par, the score being submitted for handicapping is a strokeplay score.

I like to look at it as a strokeplay game.
Competition scores are then calculated from those strokeplay scores as matchplay versus par.

I agree in theory.

But I have had this discussion with our competition committee any number of times around bogey comps being played as qualifiers.

Whilst, in theory, the aim should perhaps be to just shoot as low as possible and let the competition take care of itself, the reality for most is quite different.

The whole aim of a bogey comp is not necessarily to shoot as low as possible, it’s to beat the course. And there is a significant difference between the two, which is precisely why they should not be used as qualifiers.

The example I have used times is if I have a ten footer for birdie on a shot hole. In a strokeplay comp I am trying to make it. In a bogey comp I am trying not to leave myself a three footer coming back, so the odds are I am cosying it up to the hole side and trying to walk off with a nett birdie.

There is no way on this earth a bogey should be played as a qualifier. It’s just plain wrong.

 

[doublebogey7]

I agree in theory.

But I have had this discussion with our competition committee any number of times around bogey comps being played as qualifiers.

Whilst, in theory, the aim should perhaps be to just shoot as low as possible and let the competition take care of itself, the reality for most is quite different.

The whole aim of a bogey comp is not necessarily to shoot as low as possible, it’s to beat the course. And there is a significant difference between the two, which is precisely why they should not be used as qualifiers.

The example I have used times is if I have a ten footer for birdie on a shot hole. In a strokeplay comp I am trying to make it. In a bogey comp I am trying not to leave myself a three footer coming back, so the odds are I am cosying it up to the hole side and trying to walk off with a nett birdie.

There is no way on this earth a bogey should be played as a qualifier. It’s just plain wrong.

I'll say it again and nobody I am not sure I have ever been given and complete answer, if that the case why should handicaps based solely on a different format of the one we use for this format. Perhaps we need a matchplay/bogey handicap and a strokeplay/stableford handicap????? I am very confident that if we had both, then the vast majority of us would be playing from very similar handicaps in both formats. The amount of times in a round that the considerations you espouse actually come into play will make veery little differewnce to your handicap. The more formats that can be used for handicapping will lead to more accurate handicaps and less complaints about bandits, yet some people seem happy that players can score really well in only some formats and it have no effect on their handicap.

 

[D-S]

I'll say it again and nobody I am not sure I have ever been given and complete answer, if that the case why should handicaps based solely on a different format of the one we use for this format. Perhaps we need a matchplay/bogey handicap and a strokeplay/stableford handicap????? I am very confident that if we had both, then the vast majority of us would be playing from very similar handicaps in both formats. The amount of times in a round that the considerations you espouse actually come into play will make veery little differewnce to your handicap. The more formats that can be used for handicapping will lead to more accurate handicaps and less complaints about bandits, yet some people seem happy that players can score really well in only some formats and it have no effect on their handicap.

Do you have any evidence on that? In the US far more formats are used, are their handicaps the gold standard of accuracy?

 

[doublebogey7]

Do you have any evidence on that? In the US far more formats are used, are their handicaps the gold standard of accuracy?

I don't, though how america where they, as I understand it, play very little competitive golf is relevant I am not sure. From the little I know they have bigger problems becuase very few scores are used for handicap in competive play. It seems to me that if all competive rounds were counted in this country their would be fewer complaints of bandorory as players could not get away with winning comps played in formats that currently are not acceptable. At the very bare minimum all such rounds should be recorded by EG, so everyone as full sight of who is doing what. Today so many rumblings out there because Joe bloggs is alleged to have won an open with 55 pts at timbooktu GC.

 

[Voyager EMH]

In the old CONGU days, there was a table specifically to convert bogey scores into the appropriate score for handicapping. So you could pick up as soon as you lost the hole - no need to hole out for a net bogey.

If that was merely converting the results ...+2, +1, level, -1, -2...etc into net scores, I believe it was flawed.
It did not take account of a birdie on a shot hole or an eagle.

 

[D-S]

I don't, though how america where they, as I understand it, play very little competitive golf is relevant I am not sure. From the little I know they have bigger problems becuase very few scores are used for handicap in competive play. It seems to me that if all competive rounds were counted in this country their would be fewer complaints of bandorory as players could not get away with winning comps played in formats that currently are not acceptable. At the very bare minimum all such rounds should be recorded by EG, so everyone as full sight of who is doing what. Today so many rumblings out there because Joe bloggs is alleged to have won an open with 55 pts at timbooktu GC.

I’m not sure if there would be a huge extra database of scores if proper competition matchplay (and the odd team format, not 4BB) is added.
Most clubs just run a couple of winter and summer knockouts and the diminishing number of rounds played won’t have a significant impact on accuracy especially given other potentially problematic factors in recording these scores. The vast majority of competition golf is singles strokeplay followed by 4BB, although this is a tiny fraction of singles strokeplay. Including other formats such as the odd Bowmaker and a round or two of matchplay isn’t going to make a significant change.
The real way of adding a significant volume of extra data is using social golf in other formats but that is exactly the can of worms that leads to US style accuracy issues.

 

[cliveb]

If that was merely converting the results ...+2, +1, level, -1, -2...etc into net scores, I believe it was flawed.
It did not take account of a birdie on a shot hole or an eagle.

That's a good point. I'd never really considered it because when you're as bad at the game as I am, birdies on shot holes are very rare events