When is a staked tree not a staked tree?

Imurg

Imurg

The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
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This nearly happened today.

Unusually for me:whistle:I carved a shot into the right rough near to a tree.
Now it didn't interefere so thought nothing of it until CVG wondered if the 1/2 inch bamboo that was "staking" the tree was actually attached to said tree.
There was a section of wire mesh around the trunk and the bamboo "stake" was inside it but was definitely not attached to the tree - thereby not supporting it in any way shape or form.
Was this a "staked tree" or does the stake have to be physically attached?
It'll be useful to know for when Fragger puts a ball close to one........
 
For me, the stake is a stake unless removed by greenstaff.
If the stake is there but not attached and the wire mesh is still there, its still a staked tree IMO
 
bobmac said:
For me, the stake is a stake unless removed by greenstaff.
If the stake is there but not attached and the wire mesh is still there, its still a staked tree IMO
Click to expand...

I always thought the opposite Bob , to me if it was not attached or supporting the tree its a tough break .. just my opinion tho havent got a book here to check
 
I'm also in the if the stake is there, attached or not, it's a staked tree, camp.

If the weather rots the binding or it comes loose over the years it doesn't mean it's not a staked tree. IMO.
 
Imurg said:
This nearly happened today.

Unusually for me:whistle:I carved a shot into the right rough near to a tree.
Now it didn't interefere so thought nothing of it until CVG wondered if the 1/2 inch bamboo that was "staking" the tree was actually attached to said tree.
There was a section of wire mesh around the trunk and the bamboo "stake" was inside it but was definitely not attached to the tree - thereby not supporting it in any way shape or form.
Was this a "staked tree" or does the stake have to be physically attached?
It'll be useful to know for when Fragger puts a ball close to one........
Click to expand...

You don't mention if there is a local rule about young trees? If there isn't a local rule, then the stake is irrelevant - it's just a tree. Nor do you mention how big was the tree? The recommended local rule which (usually) refers to stakes & staked trees is entitled "Protection of Young Trees - the purpose of which is to prevent damage to young trees. If the tree in your case was too big to be regarded as a young tree (by application of common sense or reasonableness) then IMHO you could not regard the unattached "stake" as defining the tree to be a staked tree.

Either way,and regardless of local rules, the green staff need a kick up the ar*e for not looking after the new trees properly. As someone with a professional background in the trees business I find that (nearly) all new tree maintenance on golf courses appalling. Green staff seem to know about grass and greens, but naff all about trees. Rant over.
 
There is a local rule regarding young trees and the tree in question has a trunk about 6 inches diameter...
Young?
Maybe youthful.....
 
Imurg said:
There is a local rule regarding young trees and the tree in question has a trunk about 6 inches diameter...
Young?
Maybe youthful.....
Click to expand...

In which case, wearing my "tree hat" I'd say it was too big for relief. Although Colin L has a fair point about the stake (although probably a movable obstruction rather than fixed?)
 
Contentious issue is the term 'young' and I dont believe the rule makers were trying to get golfers involved in discussions of whether a tree is young or not. The stake is there to allow relief, the fact it's next to a small/thin tree, or a larger/thicker makes no difference. If its there then relief is obtained.

Btw. The rules surely mention a stake to identify the tree, not that the tree should be attached to the stake.
 
i always thought it depended on the height of the tree and a staked tree could not be considered as a free drop if above a certain height,we have a few copse on my course and the trees are over 6 years old with thick trunks and some still have the original stakes and a rubber band round them,these must be over 15 foot tall so do they count!!!
 
To my mind, a stake has to attached to the tree and be providing some support for the term "staked tree" to be correct.
Otherwise it's just a cane placed next to the tree but not serving a purpose.

The bamboo in question is loose, not attached and not supporting a tree that very obviously doesn't need supporting.
Therefore it can't be a staked tree..........
 
Imurg said:
To my mind, a stake has to attached to the tree and be providing some support for the term "staked tree" to be correct.
Otherwise it's just a cane placed next to the tree but not serving a purpose.

The bamboo in question is loose, not attached and not supporting a tree that very obviously doesn't need supporting.
Therefore it can't be a staked tree..........
Click to expand...

I disagree here Imurg, think of the out of bounds stakes. There there to mark out the out of bounds. Same way as the stake is there to mark out the "young Tree" to my mind the purpose of the stake is to identify the young tree and therefor not necessary for them to be attached. Just an opinion though with no evidence to back it up.
 
Player 1.
The stake and mesh are still there, they've just fallen away from the tree. Free drop.
Greenkeepers fault for not maintaining the staked trees.
Player 2.
But the tree is 10 years old and the trunk is 6 in thick. It therefore doesn't need the protection any more and the stake and mesh should have been removed years ago.
Greenkeepers fault for not maintaining the staked trees.

Committees decision?
Free drop, then send out naughty greenkeeper to remove said stake and mesh.
 
As long as the tree had the mesh around it then it must be there for a reason so free drop, as for the bambo stick then your club really need to up there game cos in my book there is no chance in hell that a bambo stick can help/ protect "a tree" and is a rather poor excuse for a stake, is it a council course you play at, what do they use for flag sticks:whoo:
 
Imurg said:
So is there no difinitive answer to this one?
Click to expand...

It does seem a bit woolly and may depend on your local Rule.

"Staked Tree" is not defined in the Rules.

The Specimen Local Rule recommends using the following wording

3. Protection of Young Trees

“Protection of young trees identified by ______. If such a tree interferes with a player’s stance or the area of his intended swing, the ball must be lifted, without penalty, and dropped in accordance with the procedure prescribed in Rule 24-2b (Immovable Obstruction)...."

That suggests that for the purpose of the Rule the stake identifies rather than supports the tree.

I guess the thing to do is ask the management/secretary/greens committee or whoever has responsibility for such things to clarify the situation.
 
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