When do you think you will next play golf?

[rosecott]

which trusted source? The Sun? The Mirror?

Golf administration source, but the original source - who knows?

 

[pendodave]

Hence the big issue with using BMI as a metric. One of the worst ways to judge someone as being fit & healthy.

On an individual case by case maybe, but you give me 100 people with bmi of over 35 and I'll give you a list of the significant increases in a variety of unpleasant diseases and a statistical prediction of their shorter lifespans. It'll be the best predictor by far.
It's also the single most significant factor in covid deaths, above even lung or heart conditions.
Convince me otherwise.

 

[rosecott]

which trusted source? The Sun? The Mirror?

England Golf Support Officers have now been unfurloughed - a good sign I think.

 

[Wolf]

On an individual case by case maybe, but you give me 100 people with bmi of over 35 and I'll give you a list of the significant increases in a variety of unpleasant diseases and a statistical prediction of their shorter lifespans. It'll be the best predictor by far.
It's also the single most significant factor in covid deaths, above even lung or heart conditions.
Convince me otherwise.

BMI is a very basic consideration when in comes to predictors for Obesity and doesn't factor in Adipose testing, waist to height ratio and several other factors. Taking a trial group with a BMI solely over 35 is an easy way to skew numbers in favour of just using BMI testing, because anyone in that category will ultimately have high scoring areas in those other more critical areas. So of course you can give me a list of people with issues you describe because its a simple exercise of how only use part of a test environment can be used to skew stats to suit the argument.

There are several factors that BMI doesn't take into account as above that lead many people to be put into obese/overweight categories that shouldn't be there and as a result get given bad advice on their health, likewise it can lead to some people getting fixated with being overweight and then having issues with health where they seek to be in that target number. Equally there are thousands under the BMI target being told they're unwell when they aren't, there are other factors that need considering for the entire group to be accurate. But its not my job to prove you wrong as its not yours to prove me right, but I'll take my knowledge and qualifications in this area over a slanted stat of one target group that fall into all areas that helps give a blind view of BMI being one size fits all.

 

[Imurg]

England Golf Support Officers have now been unfurloughed - a good sign I think.

Boris's statement is, according to Ms Keunsberg (or however you spell it) going to be on Sunday at 7pm
If these fellas are meeting after that can anyone see any possibility of courses having enough time to be ready for Monday morning..?
Damn..I'm ot supposed to be listening to stuff about this.......

 

[IanM]

My Programme final approval has been held up held up in Government as all C-19 stuff is prioritised. (thankfully) We are getting some news this afternoon... Now a 3 month suspension of work, coupled with the reopening of golf courses would be a result!

I am with Murgs... I've stopped listening to the noises... I am waiting on the email from the club telling me "what, when and how!"

 

[howbow88]

Boris's statement is, according to Ms Keunsberg (or however you spell it) going to be on Sunday at 7pm
If these fellas are meeting after that can anyone see any possibility of courses having enough time to be ready for Monday morning..?
Damn..I'm ot supposed to be listening to stuff about this.......

Nope. At best now, I would imagine golf reopens in England on 18May...

 

[pendodave]

BMI is a very basic consideration when in comes to predictors for Obesity and doesn't factor in Adipose testing, waist to height ratio and several other factors. Taking a trial group with a BMI solely over 35 is an easy way to skew numbers in favour of just using BMI testing, because anyone in that category will ultimately have high scoring areas in those other more critical areas. So of course you can give me a list of people with issues you describe because its a simple exercise of how only use part of a test environment can be used to skew stats to suit the argument.

There are several factors that BMI doesn't take into account as above that lead many people to be put into obese/overweight categories that shouldn't be there and as a result get given bad advice on their health, likewise it can lead to some people getting fixated with being overweight and then having issues with health where they seek to be in that target number. Equally there are thousands under tue BMI target being told they're unwell when they aren't, there are ither factors that need considering for the entire group to be accurate. But its not my job to prove you wrong as its not yours to prove me right, but I'll take my knowledge and qualifications in this area over a slanted stat of one target group that fall into all areas that helps give a blind view of BMI being one size fits all.

Thanks. I realise that you know about this stuff, so always happy to learn.
My concern with the "bmi is rubbish" meme is that a lot of people might use this as a reason to ignore it. For most people it is a very good predictor of bad s***. If we apply the 80/20 rule, I would suggest that at least 80% of people would have far healthier and longer lives if they worked to achieve a healthy bmi , rudimentary though it is. The trouble is 80% don't think it's a problem til it is...

 

[hovis]

BMI is a very basic consideration when in comes to predictors for Obesity and doesn't factor in Adipose testing, waist to height ratio and several other factors. Taking a trial group with a BMI solely over 35 is an easy way to skew numbers in favour of just using BMI testing, because anyone in that category will ultimately have high scoring areas in those other more critical areas. So of course you can give me a list of people with issues you describe because its a simple exercise of how only use part of a test environment can be used to skew stats to suit the argument.

There are several factors that BMI doesn't take into account as above that lead many people to be put into obese/overweight categories that shouldn't be there and as a result get given bad advice on their health, likewise it can lead to some people getting fixated with being overweight and then having issues with health where they seek to be in that target number. Equally there are thousands under the BMI target being told they're unwell when they aren't, there are other factors that need considering for the entire group to be accurate. But its not my job to prove you wrong as its not yours to prove me right, but I'll take my knowledge and qualifications in this area over a slanted stat of one target group that fall into all areas that helps give a blind view of BMI being one size fits all.

Before I had minor surgery on my back the doctor told me to lose some weight according to the bmi index. I just nodded. I then took my shirt of so he could examine me (I was sub 10% at the time). He said "yeh, scrap that I'll book you in" ?. Like wolf said. Bmi was out of date 20 years ago

 

[Wolf]

Thanks. I realise that you know about this stuff, so always happy to learn.
My concern with the "bmi is rubbish" meme is that a lot of people might use this as a reason to ignore it. For most people it is a very good predictor of bad s***. If we apply the 80/20 rule, I would suggest that at least 80% of people would have far healthier and longer lives if they worked to achieve a healthy bmi , rudimentary though it is. The trouble is 80% don't think it's a problem til it is...

Problem is its a greater % number than 80 than are wrongly put into the brackets based solely on BMI basic calculations. Just because your BMI may fall within the range of "so called" healthy doesn't mean you are. Which is why it is a flawed method for testing. I could list endless people I've worked with alongside GPs & NHS referral that fall into healthy banding that when Adipose tested alone without other factors that are actually in higher risk ranges than someone with a BMI of the 25 limit.

This is why I always advocate better learning and understanding of health rather than trying to rely on hitting a number we're told is a 1 size fits all.

 

[pendodave]

Before I had minor surgery on my back the doctor told me to lose some weight according to the bmi index. I just nodded. I then took my shirt of so he could examine me (I was sub 10% at the time). He said "yeh, scrap that I'll book you in" ?. Like wolf said. Bmi was out of date 20 years ago

Haha. while I admire your fitness, individual anecdotal evidence is kind of missing the point when considering the health of a large population.
I've seen the forum pics, and from every anecdote you give me I could show you 10 that suggest you're the 20% to the 80%...

 

[pendodave]

Problem is its a greater % number than 80 than are wrongly put into the brackets based solely on BMI basic calculations. Just because your BMI may fall within the range of "so called" healthy doesn't mean you are. Which is why it is a flawed method for testing. I could list endless people I've worked with alongside GPs & NHS referral that fall into healthy banding that when Adipose tested alone without other factors that are actually in higher risk ranges than someone with a BMI of the 25 limit.

This is why I always advocate better learning and understanding of health rather than trying to rely on hitting a number we're told is a 1 size fits all.

I agree. I agree with all your points. But dealing with the population of the UK, surely we can agree that this scenario will never happen and that giving people something simple which doesnt involve individual health and exercise plans is a good thing?

 

[Wolf]

Before I had minor surgery on my back the doctor told me to lose some weight according to the bmi index. I just nodded. I then took my shirt of so he could examine me (I was sub 10% at the time). He said "yeh, scrap that I'll book you in" ?. Like wolf said. Bmi was out of date 20 years ago

A very good example that, I have had same issue. I failed 2 medicals last year based on BMI one was work related and carried out by an occupational health worker as part of a screening process my BMI was 27 and was a straight fail, yet this was after the tests before where they did full medical which included Adipose test & other measurements, my body fat sits around 10-15% max depending on time of year but depsite this the lady failed me because BMI was the only factor they accepted as a variable for result. Even though she acknowledged she can see I'm fit, healthy and pass all the more important criteria.

 

[Wolf]

I agree. I agree with all your points. But dealing with the population of the UK, surely we can agree that this scenario will never happen and that giving people something simple which doesnt involve individual health and exercise plans is a good thing?

Sorry no I can't agree, I've worked with far to many people in all areas of the scale via NHS referral to me that simply don't show it in a good light or to be accurate enough overall. As I say if you take the over 35s purely as your criteria then yes it works but that's because of several other factors also.

 

[hovis]

Haha. while I admire your fitness, individual anecdotal evidence is kind of missing the point when considering the health of a large population.
I've seen the forum pics, and from every anecdote you give me I could show you 10 that suggest you're the 20% to the 80%...

Sorry I don't understand. What forum pics and 20% to 80%?.

 

[Papas1982]

Sorry I don't understand. What forum pics and 20% to 80%?.

I think he's saying that plenty of forum meets have been posted online and they show that at best 20% of those pictured would be deemed healthy.....

 

[hovis]

I think he's saying that plenty of forum meets have been posted online and they show that at best 20% of those pictured would be deemed healthy.....

Gotcha!!!

 

[Imurg]

I think he's saying that plenty of forum meets have been posted online and they show that at best 20% of those pictured would be deemed healthy.....

Being a tad generous there Young Man....

 

[fundy]

Well everyone is is just making most of the dates up. So why can't DM do the same

because theyre on their 4th date already?

 

[fundy]

so plenty of papers are quoting "Boris 5 stage plan" today putting golf in the 3rd stage, ie end of June, others are expecting them to be in the first phase either this monday or next

take your pick people, which guess is right (one will see joy on this forum the other will probably see it combust completely!)