whats the rush?

[Pants]

I used to play golf with a guy who initially took 25 - 30 seconds between his turn to play and making his shot. Over the years this became 45 - 50 seconds and his golf was getting worse. He couldn't see that his pre-shot routine, that didn't start until it was his turn to play, meant that he was taking over an hour of the round just to hit his flipping ball.

The proof that this was ruining his (and my) game came when we were on a 2 ball course with a buggie in front and one behind and we were walking. I persuaded him that we should keep up with the group in front, which we did, and I've never seen him play better golf.

Assess the shot as you walk up to the ball, pull out a club, hit it, and walk on.

Played last week as a 2 ball behind a 4 ball of seniors. We had trouble keeping up with them. Watching them, those that had already teed off were walking off the tee virtually as the last one played his shot, they played their ball when ready rather then worrying too much about "the honour", they played their shot before the previous player's ball had stopped rolling.

Maybe, they had been playing together for so long that they hadn't anything to chat about while they played.

 

[griffgolf]

Griff... Whilst it may not have been a problem to you it doesn't mean that you haven't disrupted the games of others at some point as you believe you haven't been losing time or a hole. Everyone plays at a different pace. Just because you haven't lost a hole is no reason to continue holding them up. Incidentally I think it's hard to argue with that since the R&A have put it in print... saying that you don't do so is basically saying you don't behave in accordance with the etiquette of the game. Care to admit to that?

That said I don't think that players are the main cause of slow play. It's usually tee times booked too close together or an inappropriate course setup that causes it.

If anyone has ever had or in future have a problem with the speed of play of I or anyone playing in my group and addressed us about it,I would like to think it would be sorted in the best natured and politest way possible at that moment in time.

Until that time comes along ( sods law this is going to happen now.....LOL) I will carry on enjoying golf

 

[alnecosse]

While i take the point nothing worse than a 5 hour round of golf, i also would like to make the point of when i play a new course and ive just payed anything from £50 to £100 for a round of golf theres nothing worse than someone standing there at the back of you with hands on hips and pressurising you to fly round the course which then takes most of the enjoyment of playing a new course away from you when the only thing your thinking about is the people standing behind you waiting, and for the most part theres nothing you can do as your keeping pace with the group in front,think its the same as driving your car some guys just cant see anyone in front of them and actually speed up to catch up and get past. Incidentally my average round is between 3 1/2 and 4 hrs so i wouldnt class our 3 or4 ball as being slow and we would always let a group thru if we had lost ball etc but this is the one thing that ruins my enjoyment on course.

 

[Snelly]

=alnecosse;445879when i play a new course and ive just payed anything from £50 to £100 for a round of golf theres nothing worse than someone standing there at the back of you with hands on hips and pressurising you to fly round the course.

Er, let them through then?

 

[19thagain]

Patrick, if you can play round Nairn on a windy day, in a fourball exchanging chit chat, in three hours - you are a better man than me but maybe you all play off scratch or plus something.

I play in competition every Saturday and we all have our same times each week. This means that we all know the score, should two members of your fourball not turn up one week you do not expect to rampage through the field slowing up all the fourball games as you beat your merry way to the bar. You just accept the situation or DON't PLAY that week.

I experienced a 'speedy' golfer in a match play situation where he tried to con me. On the tee watching my ball landing and he was in at my feet putting his ball on the tee, putting for a half and he had the flag hovering over the hole.

He hit at the ninth and did not watch his ball finish(again!) but this time it wandered into whin - not found and he had to return to the tee and the funny thing is....he watched every drive come to rest after that and become less arshie on the greens.

As someone has already remarked turning up on a Saturday morning creating a climate of annoyance by putting pressure on the game(s) in front when they are all up to time, is a funny way to enjoy one of life's beautiful sports, in my opinion.

I got great enjoyment hitting 38 shots for the inward 9 holes against a very (2 club+) strong breeze on Saturday ..I doubt if I could get the same enjoyment from standing in the clubhouse bragging that I got through five fourballs and could now have an extra two pints!!

 

[patricks148]

Patrick, if you can play round Nairn on a windy day, in a fourball exchanging chit chat, in three hours - you are a better man than me but maybe you all play off scratch or plus something.

I play in competition every Saturday and we all have our same times each week. This means that we all know the score, should two members of your fourball not turn up one week you do not expect to rampage through the field slowing up all the fourball games as you beat your merry way to the bar. You just accept the situation or DON't PLAY that week.

I experienced a 'speedy' golfer in a match play situation where he tried to con me. On the tee watching my ball landing and he was in at my feet putting his ball on the tee, putting for a half and he had the flag hovering over the hole.

He hit at the ninth and did not watch his ball finish(again!) but this time it wandered into whin - not found and he had to return to the tee and the funny thing is....he watched every drive come to rest after that and become less arshie on the greens.

As someone has already remarked turning up on a Saturday morning creating a climate of annoyance by putting pressure on the game(s) in front when they are all up to time, is a funny way to enjoy one of life's beautiful sports, in my opinion.

I got great enjoyment hitting 38 shots for the inward 9 holes against a very (2 club+) strong breeze on Saturday ..I doubt if I could get the same enjoyment from standing in the clubhouse bragging that I got through five fourballs and could now have an extra two pints!!

It's usually a 3 ball, as you are not supposed to go out as 4 ball before 9am

When i played at Dornoch at the weekend we didn't see the 3 ball in front of us after 6th hole and i was in a 2 ball around in 3 and half hours the 4 ball behind lost 2 or 3 holes and we found loads of nice new Prov's

 

[elliottlale]

depends on when i play to be honest. had the afternoon off from work today, so played a 9 hole course on my own and did 2 laps. was more than happy to drag it out and play at a nice pace without anyone breathing down my neck (it was empty as everyone seems to ply the 18 hole). at weekends when im home it can be different. if my girlfriend is home, i get up early doors, try and be the first one out and usually play at a fast(ish) pace, so i get more time with my GF. usually takes about 2 hrs 45 mins. if im in a comp or playing with others (when GF is not home), happy with a fair pace, dont like to be rushed through by the group behind (this just causes a snaking effect!) but always seem to keep up with the group in front.
really does depend

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We play on a Saturday. There is a roll up of 16-20 who go out first usually loitering by the tee in the dark less someone has the audacity to want to play first. They are just painfully slow and won't let any of their mates through and so set the pace for the course. We are usually the next bit group out and invariably have to wait most weekends at the tail of their roll up. We usually get the "going to be slow today" comments to which I usually say "not if you F**k off and let us through you do this every ******* weekend"

Sadly the club won't do naything and so nothing is going to change. No way are you going re-educated these guys and as they are car park jockeys they never come in the clubhouse so they can have it explained to them in a more civilised manner.

As a result I know a Saturday round will take 4 hours or more and accept it. Nothing I can do will make it go quicker and we aren't going through anyone. As a result I'm sorry to say that I'm loathe to let anyone through as they will not get any further. These guys don't recognise quicker players - end of. On the other side of the coin, I am not a slow player but in comps particularly I am always aware of the groups behind and our position as I would hate to be held up every shot if I had a good round going and so try and ensure I don't do the same to others and will encourage my partners to let others through if the need arises

 

[Imurg]

My last 2 - well 1 1/2 - rounds have been completely ruined by peoples inability to let others through.
Today was just unbelievable.
A 4 ball - to be fair playing at 4 ball pace - holding up the entire course. Behind them were 3x2 balls and me. The course in front of them was clear.
What made things worse was that nobody would let me through, obviously able to play faster than all of them.
It took me 12 minutes 49 seconds to play a 160 yard par 3. 10 minutes 20 seconds of that waiting on the tee.
The old "we're not letting you through as we're being held up" was spouted - to be honest I could have killed one of them!
After taking over 2 hours to reach the turn I packed it in - the will to live draining from every pore.
As I said in another thread - this wasn't particularly down to playing slowly. 4 hours for a 4 ball isn't particularly slow round my place - but 4 hours for a single most certainly is! It's all down to the ignorance of the letting through process or the arrogance that says it doesn't exist.

I don't care how slowly/fast people want to play this game. If they catch me up, I'll let 'em through. If I catch them up I expect to get let through.

Simples

 

[bladeplayer]

Very intresting opinions in this , i think its been generalised a bit much , i think most groups will have a player or two with a bad hole or so & play will slow up , if this happens in a few different places throughout the course you will get pockets of slow play , it can also happen around drivable par4 or reachable par 5,s.. some groups have to wait , others dont ,........
heres a scenario , we are out in a four ball , dont start great , couple of ball searches & 3putts so we are holding ye up , apologies guys play on through , as in another thread ye play through but then proceed to have a couple of bad holes , do you now let us play through again ?.. i dont think it will ever be solved but i think the GUIDE of if you loose a hole to the group in front then speed up or step aside is a decent measure .. i think its a time related thing , if you are suposed to play 9 in 2 hours & you are behind that you are causing a problem , just another thing , in a 3 ball singles comp does a 2 ball have the RIGHT to play through 3 balls ahead of them ? as it OFFICIALY a 3 person comp why should 3 be expected to play at the pace of 2 & not the other way around .....personaly i do let them on & dont have a problem with it, just wondering what the consencious is.... on a personal note i dont want a 5 hour round of golf no more than anyone , but if im stuck for time i wont put my name down to play

 

[SGC001]

That's the attitude which pretty much says everything in relation to this particular issue.

I suggest you digest the following from the R&A from the Etiquette section of the Rules of Golf.

Play at a Good Pace and Keep Up You should always play at a good pace. The committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow. It's a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If they lose a clear hole and delay the group behind, they should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, they should also invite the faster moving group to overtake them.


I have highlighted the appropriate section in italics for those who will be tempted to read only the section related to having lost a hole.

I find the bit "it is apparent that the group behind can play faster" interesting and relevant to some of the arguments going on here (which may be at cross purposes). You're been held up ahead and the group behind is been held up, who's to say which of your and the groups behind group is faster? So, why should you let them through if it is not apparent that they can play faster? If you're not been held up and are just keeping pace and the group behind is been held up; then I could understand that argument. However, if I'm been held up I can't see it myself and see no reason in that situation to let other groups through.

I'm picturing the scenario of 4 groups all behind the 1st one and each been held up, the 2nd group is of the opinion that they shouldn't let others through as they can't go anywhere and the group ahead is holding them up and won't let them through. The 3rd and 4th groups think if they are been caught up, they must let the group behind through since if they are been caught up (even though they are been held up) the group behind must be faster and they should therefore let them through. Now the 3rd group becomes the 4th group and is been held up by the ex 4th group so they get let through and keep overtaking each other due to the slow and regrettable 1st group and the 2nd group which could be argued have a more reasoned understanding of etiquette.

Edit: I can remember as a kid getting 'asked' by a group on the second (we were up with play and it was a busy course with many groups ahead) to let them through as they were in a match and would play must faster. We let them through and got held up every shot for the next 6 holes when the 2nd group of the match 'asked' us to let them through as they could play much faster. I pointed to their fellow match ahead and said that's what they claimed and they've held us up every shot since they got through; we will not be letting you through as you can't go anywhere and will only hold us up.

 

[sev112]

I have a pre-shot set up I go though every shot. Which takes 45-50 sec's.If you want to play though you can. But thats my speed and thats how it stays.

Oh my god - i have just timed that !!?? What do you do that takes that long ?
Nothing personal, especially if you are letting people through regualrly, but what do you actually do ?

 

[sev112]

Oh my god - i have just timed that !!?? What do you do that takes that long ?
Nothing personal, especially if you are letting people through regualrly, but what do you actually do ?

Ok - just noted your later post which says it's more like 15 to 20 secs, which seems not unreasonable

But given the emotions in this thread already you can imagine why i was shocked


P.S. Snelly for President

 

[G1BB0]

My average round time with my playing partners is the 4hr mark, 2 odf us off 28 h/c the other off 10, the other bloke off 28 is also 65 y/o

if we are wayward or get caught up we always wave through at the 1st opportunity as we enjoy the company as much as the golf so sort of make the most of it

 

[PNWokingham]

Ok -


P.S. Snelly for President

seconded! Common sense no more! Nothing ruins a game more than hanging around all the time. There should be an expectation of the max a round (2, 3 or 4) should take on a given course - and the max should be 4 hours as a 4-ball on a long course. The biggest issue is people not being ready to play, marking the score on the tee when it their honour instead of after they have played etc

 

[sweatysock41]

I can see both points of view here. I totally agree that it is the interpretation of the italics where it is 'apparent' that a group behind is faster. In which case I would have no qualms about letting them through. However, if I am being held up by the group in front then No Way Jose! Now that might sound selfish but to me it is no more selfish than the I've caught you up you've got to let me through attitude if you don't understand why you have caught the group in front.

For example if you see that the group in front is having to wait to play every shot then surely it is obvious that they are in the same predicament as you - i.e. they are being held up and it would be unreasonable in my opinion to apply pressure on them. That said it only takes one group to be painfuly slow to inflict the misery on everyone else like the group Homer referred to.

Clubs can do more to help things with tee times, although at peak times I feel that only 4 balls should be allowed not 2 balls, the problems we have at our course seem to arise when a 2 ball expects to zoom around on a Saturday morning. Golf is supposed to be a sociable game why not pair up with another 2 ball if possible?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Play at your own pace, just don't let your pace adversely affect anyone else's

 

[welshjim22]

I don't want to rush but i REALLy don't want to stand around waiting between shots and holes for unnecessarily slow play. It's got to be a balance. 4 1/2 hours is good on a large course but 5 1/2+ hours is beginning to intrude into the rest of the day and therefore limits my ability to work around family and work commitments. I normally tee off at 11:00 and i am in the car by 15:00 latest. My course is only 9 holes with different back tee's so if it takes more than 2 1/2 hours for the first nine i normally leave it at 9 holes. Having said that you can see the first three holes clearly as you walk up the 9th so if it is quieter on the back nine i may stay out.

In favour of the above. Always let faster groups, yes even singles, through at a sensible place. I prefer to signal a group from fairway so that the group behind them doesn't end up sitting on the tee with me.

 

[rosecott]

I prefer to signal a group from fairway so that the group behind them doesn't end up sitting on the tee with me.

There's a germ of an idea here. Perhaps we could devise a universal system of hand (or finger) signals to convey our feelings on situations to the groups ahead and behind us. All suggestions will be considered.