what would you like to see changed about the handicap system in the UK

[Jungle]

I'm actually a fan of the current system, If your playing well it will come down, if your playing horse it wont, pretty much what its designed to do. unfortunately it does throw up a few issues.

Low activity is one, like one of the first posters I think 10 cards is more than achievable with the option to top up with as many supplementaries if need be.

Segregation I'm not a big fan of. I started my golfing journey on 26 and it has and continues to fall. Through my time I've had some really enjoyable games and only last Sunday spent a good four hours with a guy playing off 2. I would hate to be shunted into a group forced to play together and would only further fuel the myth of low/high handicap divides.

What I do think is worth a go is an additional medal for 19 - 28 handicappers. Which would give guys an opportunity to get over some of the pressure they may feel during the Saturday medal (which of course they could still play)

As I say I don't think the system is broken, in theory it ensures golf can be a real inclusive sport. Th main issue lies with the people who manipulate that said system and unfortunately what ever was implemented those same people would figure out a work around.

 

[Leereed]

The problem is on our day most of us can play well below our handicaps. If in match play we all played of scratch a lot would never enter because the format would suit the very low handicap plays who would lose a few shot at best.why would I off 16 lose 16 shots I would get hammered.its not perfect but what is...

 

[Stuey01]

I know you can't, it's a nebulous concept and you always jump on it whenever I state that I don't enjoy these matches. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy them so would hope you might just accept that I don't.

I also don't like peas.

 

[chrisd]

Simple change for me, I'd scrap CSS affecting handicaps, anyone shooting better than par would get a cut and I'd make the point where .1 is added up to about 4 over handicap.

 

[garyinderry]

I'd increase the max mens handicap to 36

.

why would you want this?

 

[John_R7]

I do not think it is far away as it is. People should just accept the 'rules' and live with them. You know what's happening before you start, live with it and embrace it.

Not being able to perform in a medal is nothing to do with handicap, it is in the head. What if you went to a concert and the artist said "I sing great in the studio so I will hide in this box at the corner, I do not want to stand in front of thousands of people." - or if footballers decided they wanted to play real matches behind closed doors.

Golf (for us) is a hobby to be enjoyed, it does not pay the mortgage (for the £12.38 you might manage to lift after paying £3 to enter!)
Go out, play and enjoy the walk, game and company. Medal, Stableford, Practice, Matchplay or Bounce game I hardly change - I am happy to be playing golf regardless of what it is.

Back on point(ish) I would like to see CSS never come below SSS. Go up, yes, if conditions are harsh and you play a blinder compared to the rest of the field then you should be cut more. If a lot play 'mediocre' then why should the CSS reduce and possibly stop people being cut? Just cut them all that were below SSS.
This might not appeal to many as my suggestion helps (very slightly) in reducing HC but does nothing to 'help' those that want to be higher.

 

[duncan mackie]

Back on point(ish) I would like to see CSS never come below SSS. Go up, yes, if conditions are harsh and you play a blinder compared to the rest of the field then you should be cut more. If a lot play 'mediocre' then why should the CSS reduce and possibly stop people being cut? Just cut them all that were below SSS.
This might not appeal to many as my suggestion helps (very slightly) in reducing HC but does nothing to 'help' those that want to be higher.

it really isn't far away from this right now John. For most normal distribution fields you are looking at something like 50% or more of the relevant field scoring to buffer or better to shift the CSS down 1 ie it's a really significant set of scores to trigger it!

 

[Liverbirdie]

Then i would suggest dont play in them - thats all that can be suggested really. Golf is about enjoyment and fun. Only play in the scratch comps i guess will be your only KO to play.

Hmmm, arguably, but I don't think that necessarily follows. Not saying I don't enjoy handicap matchplay per se, just that at a certain difference it can become too contrived for my liking.

To be fair Phil, FD is a lady golfer and there will be a bigger gulf in ladies matches not only due to the higher handicaps involved between a 4/5 handicapper and a 36 handicapper, but also other things potentially, such as distance of the tee etc.

Just as some men cant play to 28, but are off it. Some ladies will be off 36, but may be more like 50-odd handicappers.

 

[fundy]

When I played of a low handicap [3 or less] I cannot recall any matchplay competition when I lost to anyone playing off 18 or more.
I even won one game giving 17 shots when I was 6 down after 7.
A low handicap player should always have the edge unless the high handicapper is playing of a 'contrived' handicap.

let me guess, that was before they abolished giving 3/4s handicaps

massive difference playing a guy off 20 worse and giving him 15 rather than 20 shots!

 

[fundy]

btw i dont know what the right answer is but im not sure we're that far away with the current system

personaly preference would be for a few tweeks but nothing too severe, id recommend;

max 1 shot per hole given in matchplay

change to how sss is calculated (some of the recent calculations leave me dumbfounded - if anyone can tell me the SSS at centurion are even close to a level playing field with other courses id be amazed)

all handicap history to be submitted when joining a new club and some rules as to how they are taken into account (too many stories of people moving clubs to be reassessed for handicap lately, arguably this is the easiest route for those who want to "fix" their handicap. maybe new handicap cant be more than a certain percentage higher than lowest ever handicap (then reviewd after 20+ comp rounds) - i know id have played off much lower for half a year or so several years back under this rule rather than feeling my reallocation was more than generous!

 

[JCW]

5 cards I say and anyone leaving the game for a few years then coming back to a 10 handicap when they played of 5 needs looking at , slope system maybe and must have a central system where records are kept for even say 5 years for players who have stop playing then return with some high handicap , I think the system is fine , I like to see one change and that is for the cat 1 buffer zone , should be standard for all cats , anythink within 3 shots off the CSS should not go up , so a standard buffer zone for everyone .................EYG

 

[SGC001]

Would like to see a genuine stroke index reflecting difficulty used for strokeplay events.

Quite like the idea of a course rating, different tees to play form for different handicaps and handicap adjusted accordingly. I feel it would also benefit beginners who could then play of shorter tees and we could do away with mens / ladies tees.

Not a fan of the movability of the american system too open to abuse by sandbaggers.

Was interested to read a link before of 3/4 handicaps for stabs when they came in down under.

Prefer the 3/4 handicap for matchplay or 3/8 for foursomes, all data used to support the change to full and 1/2 was unscientific imo since it could not possibly have related to match play data for scoring. I am aware the way the buffer zones work does give some advantage to lower handicap players, as could the likely ability to play relatively better shots when under pressure.

Don't like the SPA for medals as it only gets people lower than they should be and this then leads to some less keen to enter medals

Would like to see more medals played, when I started I counted gross as I suspect most people do, then you join a club and they don't?

 

[DaveM]

It's not snobbery, I'll happily play a bounce game with anyone and give them any encouragement they need but when I am giving that many shots in a match I just can't get "up" for it so end up treating it just like a social game. I go through the motions but just can't bring myself to care about the outcome.

This surely is a fault in you, not the handicap system.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The problem is on our day most of us can play well below our handicaps. If in match play we all played of scratch a lot would never enter because the format would suit the very low handicap plays who would lose a few shot at best.why would I off 16 lose 16 shots I would get hammered.its not perfect but what is...

I don't think anyone has said we should all play off scratch.

I suggested reverting back to 18 handicap. That equates to one shot per hole against a scratch player, seems fair.
Additional competitions for 19 to 36 handicap players of both sexes would also be a bonus.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I don't think anyone has said we should all play off scratch.

I suggested reverting back to 18 handicap. That equates to one shot per hole against a scratch player, seems fair.
Additional competitions for 19 to 36 handicap players of both sexes would also be a bonus.

No, but I did think it

 

[FairwayDodger]

This surely is a fault in you, not the handicap system.

While I think "fault" is maybe a bit harsh, I do agree that it says less about the handicap system and more about my attitude towards it.

My issue is not so much with the system itself as with the claims of evangelists such as Phil that it is all things to all people. Yes, it allows a competitive match between players of different abilities but, in my opinion, as the gap in ability (and hence handicap) increases the match becomes more contrived. You reach the point where the two players are almost playing a different game entirely.

There isn't a way to change the system to overcome that, limiting handicaps isn't the answer at all - that would be counter productive, wouldn't address the slightly subtle point I'm making and just make such matches a formality for the low handicapper.

I don't think it unreasonable for me to say, "you know what, I just don't enjoy these matches". Which is not the same thing as saying I don't enjoy playing golf with a high handicapper. Just that a matchplay tie loses its authentic competitive edge.

Fully appreciate that might not be a commonly held opinion but, I hope, some at least can understand where I'm coming from.

 

[rosecott]

Having been involved in the handicapping system at club level for many years, I think the system is generally as good as a handicapping system can be – a little tinkering around the edges is probably a good thing to keep it fresh. Where I think many of the problems perceived by forummers lie is in the application of the system at all levels. Here’s a story that is an example of what I mean.

A couple of years ago, I had a PM from a forum member who was moving from a shortish course to a much longer one and was concerned that his handicap would not travel well. I advised him that there would be a straight transfer of handicap and the Handicap Committee at the new club should then be monitoring his handicap as they should be doing for all other members. His handicap at the old club was 7 and I found out that his new club allocated him 18 and applied for a new CDH number. He apparently told the new club that he did not feel that he was a genuine Cat 2.

I was so incensed at this abuse of the system that I pursued it through the National and County Unions but was eventually advised that little could be done as the club would find ways and means to get round any action from above. My simple message is that the system is sound but can only be effective if properly applied and monitored at all levels.

 

[dufferman]

An interesting thread, a lot of the comments and observation seem to be from a low handicapper's POV. As a high handicapper (22) I find the system works well. I play with a 19 H/C & 28 H/C, and for us, walking away with nett 2+ 3+ 4+ etc makes the game hugely enjoyable.

From a competition perspective, if the 28 h/c could not be given more than 18 shots, he wouldn't play. Simple as. To some extent, I would ask if the hardest holes on the course should be made harder for me, by only getting 1 shot on them, not 2; when the 9h/c I might be playing against gets all his allocated shots?

Maybe the answer is, as a 22 h/c, any holes I get 2 shots on, I lose from the easiest holes? Getting a shot on the SI18 125yrd par 3 is a bit tough for a low handicapper to swallow. If I get 0 shots on that because I get 2 on the SI1, it might even the field.

The other POV from a high h/c perspective is new members, both to courses and to the game itself. If high h/c felt they were being shunned when it comes to comps, would they actually join a course, or stick to muni / pay and play courses? If high h/c players are seen to be not catered for in comps, would there even be new players? Or would people think 'If I can't compete, I'll play another sport'? We don't need ANOTHER excuse for people not to play this game.

With regards to the split groups competition, you're really just passing the problem of bandits to the higher categories. 18h/c and below (16 h/c, whatever it may be) would be happy and settled in their comps, where the 19+ comps would have the same people cheating, just with bad players. It becomes too easy to have a 19h/c playing to 12 or 13 and running away with it.

I've only just got my h/c, and am playing the monthly stableford Saturday. I'm playing really well at the moment, I shot +1 nett yesterday and -4nett the week before, so I hope I'll play well enough to get a cut this weekend.

The problem is, for every 'bandit' or story of a high h/c beating a low h/c, there are 100 where the guy or gal with a 2h/c wins the comp. People just don't talk about those things...

Maybe we should put a 'what H/C won this month' thread together, where everyone who plays a comp posts the winners H/C. That's a way of seeing if the system really is broke!

 

[Slab]

I don't think anyone has said we should all play off scratch.

I suggested reverting back to 18 handicap. That equates to one shot per hole against a scratch player, seems fair.
Additional competitions for 19 to 36 handicap players of both sexes would also be a bonus.

Re Maxing at 18

So you reckon a 1 handicap and a 24 handicap should both play the stroke index one hole with the same stroke allowance.

Is that a fair handicap system though?

 

[moogie]

I'm not against those getting 28 shots
But can see the "low" golfers view in Matchplay
I'd say , let the 5 capper play the 28 capper in Matchplay , but I'd set a limit of 18 strokes being given away in any Matchplay scenario
.????