what would you like to see changed about the handicap system in the UK

[Deleted member 15344]

But what do I do if I feel the same way as FD, but I'm a high handicapper? I would gain minimal satisfaction from beating a 2 handicapper. Having played with many low handicappers, and see the way they play, then I would agree with FD and say that it's a different game. Drive, iron 2 putt is a lot different to drive duff iron, iron, chip putt/2 putt.

Then don't play matchplay games.

Play scratch games without HC

 

[Pro Zach]

Then don't play matchplay games.

Play scratch games without HC

Yeah, what we need is system that allows him to play scratch games without handicap against players of a similar ability.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah, what we need is system that allows him to play scratch games without handicap against players of a similar ability.

So instead of playing against everyone who wants to play - you will only play against people of the same ability as you ? Start filtering people into categories that they play in ?

We have three matchplay comps ( not including the seniors )

We have the scratch , handicap and also high handicap above 18. Add in more comps just make it a flood of comps and then dilutes comps.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Do you mean a bit like an FA cup match when a non league team full of part timers plays against Man City - vast vast difference in abilities yet it is still competitive

Played in matches as a high handicapper against a low HC and vice verses , played against fellow Cat 1's etc - every single match is different and unless I have missed something the level of competiviness between the players hasn't always been determined by the HC - have had a scratch match against a 3 HC and won 7&5 and the match was nowhere near competitive - very one sided , have had a match against a 26 HC taken to the 19th

You are both playing golf regardless of HC or ability - the level of golf from each person will be different but I hope you are we not saying that the high HC isn't really playing the same sport - that's not very fair.

The overall feeling I get ( not just from you ) but from a certain percentage of low HC they show a level of HC snobbery towards the higher HC's. For people who feel that way then I would suggest either turn pro and play with out HC or avoid all HC comps within the amatuer game.

Yip, knew I'd regret trying to explain my rather subtle opinion to you. Not snobbery at all, will happily play socially with high handicappers but I derive no sense of competition or enjoyment once I start giving a stupid number of shots. Whenever I end up in a match like that I always end up treating it like a fun social game. Just to reiterate, this applies to match play only.

Anyway, you either can't or won't understand the subtle distinction so I'm out.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yip, knew I'd regret trying to explain my rather subtle opinion to you. Not snobbery at all, will happily play socially with high handicappers but I derive no sense of competition or enjoyment once I start giving a stupid number of shots. Whenever I end up in a match like that I always end up treating it like a fun social game. Just to reiterate, this applies to match play only.

Anyway, you either can't or won't understand the subtle distinction so I'm out.

Yes you feel no competition against people with a lower level of ability than you because you have to give them shots - as I said don't play against them in matchplay then because the problem doesn't sit with the system more with the way you approach the game with high HC. Ok to play with them socially but not in competition - don't play in comps against them then

 

[Hobbit]

The handicap system works well the closer in ability the two players are. However, there comes a point at which the difference in ability is so vast and number of strokes required to address that difference so large that the match ceases to be competitive because, in a sense, the two players are no longer playing the same sport.

I think I can see where you're coming from with this, and if I'm reading it right I agree with you. Technically, it does sometimes feel like it isn't competitive, i.e. a high handicapper knobs it several times up the hole and still hasn't reached your drive.

My attitude to matchplay, irrespective of handicap, is to play against the course for the vast majority of the holes. If you play the best you can against the course, i.e. a scratch player, the score in your own match will be whatever it will be. But at least one third of the match, you against the course is competitive. If it turns out the person you are playing is playing well, then whole game is competitive.

The only time I really take note of what my opponent is doing is if I have a high risk shot, i.e. will I be giving the hole away if I screw up.

 

[upsidedown]

The handicap system works well the closer in ability the two players are. However, there comes a point at which the difference in ability is so vast and number of strokes required to address that difference so large that the match ceases to be competitive because, in a sense, the two players are no longer playing the same sport.

FD , I'm sorry but disagree with you there. Play HiD regularly in matchplay ( as mentioned already in this thread ) handicaps 6 and 30 and we have very competitive games and she is most certainly playing the same sport

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

It has always struck me as a bit odd that I, playing off 28, could "beat" my mate playing off 18, even though I had more hits.

I get it for friendly games, it gives us a competitive edge where there otherwise wouldn't be one, but I haven't really won.

I haven't been a club member anywhere so am not steeped in that culture, but, whatever the rule for a handicap is, it is to a certain extent, arbitrary (like judging diving). To hear someone talk about winning a club competition (that seems to have some sort of status), despite having had more hits than someone else in the competition strikes me as a bit odd.

It doesn't happen in tennis, or badminton so why golf?

 

[Jack_bfc]

I have no problem with a medal or stableford where you are playing the course and trying to improve your HC! If that results in a net win then so be it!

I can see the problem in match play! I have played 4 matches and all against lower HC! This causes me to feel guilty when I play well and lead or win. With comments from playing partners about you r HC etc! Then feel crap when it goes pare shaped and you lose!!

That's a lose lose situation!

 

[Crow]

It has always struck me as a bit odd that I, playing off 28, could "beat" my mate playing off 18, even though I had more hits.

I get it for friendly games, it gives us a competitive edge where there otherwise wouldn't be one, but I haven't really won.

I haven't been a club member anywhere so am not steeped in that culture, but, whatever the rule for a handicap is, it is to a certain extent, arbitrary (like judging diving). To hear someone talk about winning a club competition (that seems to have some sort of status), despite having had more hits than someone else in the competition strikes me as a bit odd.

It doesn't happen in tennis, or badminton so why golf?

If a handicap competition were run in tennis or badminton then it would happen.
If it were possible to develop a handicap system for the likes of tennis or badminton that works as well as golf's then I'm pretty sure those sports would welcome it with open arms.

It works in golf because both players are playing the course rather than directly against each other, as in tennis or badminton.
In tennis or badminton you are playing directly against your opponent and hitting the same ball/shuttlecock and so the difference in class between an equivalent scratch player and a 28 handicapper is terrifyingly obvious and means that neither player will enjoy the contest.

You see handicaps a lot in golf because most club competitions are handicap competitions, the main reason for that is to get as many people as possible entering and enjoying the competition.

Going back to your original point; no, you haven't really won, but you've won the handicap competition that you agreed to play by.

Personally I think the handicap system is great for it's inclusivity and the fact that it means that I can enjoy a competitive game with anybody, at any club, who has a correctly administered handicap.

A golfers handicap also enables them to assess how they're progressing in the game.

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

Going back to your original point; no, you haven't really won, but you've won the handicap competition that you agreed to play by.

Personally I think the handicap system is great for it's inclusivity and the fact that it means that I can enjoy a competitive game with anybody, at any club, who has a correctly administered handicap.

A golfers handicap also enables them to assess how they're progressing in the game.

I like its inclusivity - so I can play against my mate who is better than me, and I like it being a measure of progression.

But if I "beat" my friend, it's not because I'm a better golfer than him.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Unless there is a definitive and better system I'm happy with what we have. It isn't perfect but it allows everyone to compete on a level footing. At the end of the day I hit my ball count up how many times and take off my handicap. All I care about is my own performance and the pursuit of single figures. If I play well, wins and cuts will take care of themselves and if I chop I know its 0.1 time.

 

[FairwayDodger]

FD , I'm sorry but disagree with you there. Play HiD regularly in matchplay ( as mentioned already in this thread ) handicaps 6 and 30 and we have very competitive games and she is most certainly playing the same sport

So, the different sport comment was an extreme remark to jog a closed mind to try and imagine where I was coming from. I said "in a sense", obviously it's the same sport. I knew I'd regret it.....

 

[6inchcup]

all comps should be split into 3 cat,scratch or better to 9,9 to 18,and 18 and above,how can a hacker of 28 say they have won the comp if they beat the +1 player by a stroke,who has played the better golf,someone who takes a double bogey net birdie or someone who gets a birdie with no shot,no one should be allowed more than a shot per hole,in comps,regardless of gender.

 

[duncan mackie]

,how can a hacker of 28 say they have won the comp if they beat the +1 player by a stroke...

in exactly the same way as the player off 5 can - it's a handicap competition!

which makes it obvious that your solution actually has no bearing on the problem you are presenting

(none of which has any relevance to any handicap system anyway)

 

[DaveM]

I have read every post on this thread. Most of the posts read like sour grapes to me. The handicap system may not be perfect. But on the whole it works well enough.
I remember the first handicap I got on joining a club after 6 months in the game. It was 14.
Thank you and goodnight.