What Laws Would You Change?!

[Oddsocks]

as someone else said, playing from a divot, this just makes the divot bigger.

I know there would need to be some sort of clarification, but to me if the divot is fresh enough to be bare mud, with no grass growth it should be a move within 6 inches on the fairway, or a mark and drop in th rough.

 

[bladeplayer]

Divot rule to me seems to be grossly unfair, so does the spike marks on the green. I'd probably go for those two.

I've always thought rules should be there to either punish bad play or illegal actions in the context of the game.

Where the above two seem to penalise bad luck.

I agree with a change to be allowed to repair spike marks on the greens or any other damage on the line of your putt .. i think the area of divots is too open to interpetation/abuse as to what is & what is not a divot .. fairways are massive & id put it down to rub of the green .. we all eventualy (well hopefuly) end up near the hole & have to putt at that 1 spot , you shouldnt be penalised if some clown does his dancing on ice interpetation damaging the area in or around the hole, having made a 6"putt for apoint..

 

[Pro Zach]

That would make you really popular, and reduce the entrants down to about 10 people. That not really what golf is all about.
You need to play tennis.

I think I would be very unpopular. People would throw teddies, complain that I had ruined golf, and vow never to play in a competition again. People don't like change and golfers have a genuine, but misguided, belief that the handicap system is good for golf.


When people have put their lip away, some will enter competitions again, although they have little chance of winning. Then, when they shoot 10 shots better than they have ever done before, and finish perhaps 10[SUP]th[/SUP],they will be over the moon. They will not in anyway be embarrassed or uncomfortable. They will not question if their handicap is correct.They will not feel like a bandit or be called a bandit. They will get more satisfaction, and enjoyment, from finishing 10[SUP]th[/SUP] on merit.


To get real satisfaction from your performance, it is not necessary to win, but it is necessary to play fairly. Most golfers I know wouldn't dream of kicking their ball out of a bad lie to gain a 1 shot advantage, but have no problem gaining a 20 shot advantage with a handicap allowance. Taking an advantage doesn't become fair simply because someone wrote it into the rules.

 

[Region3]

I think I would be very unpopular. People would throw teddies, complain that I had ruined golf, and vow never to play in a competition again. People don't like change and golfers have a genuine, but misguided, belief that the handicap system is good for golf.


When people have put their lip away, some will enter competitions again, although they have little chance of winning. Then, when they shoot 10 shots better than they have ever done before, and finish perhaps 10[SUP]th[/SUP],they will be over the moon. They will not in anyway be embarrassed or uncomfortable. They will not question if their handicap is correct.They will not feel like a bandit or be called a bandit. They will get more satisfaction, and enjoyment, from finishing 10[SUP]th[/SUP] on merit.


To get real satisfaction from your performance, it is not necessary to win, but it is necessary to play fairly. Most golfers I know wouldn't dream of kicking their ball out of a bad lie to gain a 1 shot advantage, but have no problem gaining a 20 shot advantage with a handicap allowance. Taking an advantage doesn't become fair simply because someone wrote it into the rules.

What rationale is behind thinking people would murder their PB by 10 shots if they were forced to play against everyone else off levels?

If someone plays in 40 comps a year at £3 a pop and has 10th place to look forward to if they could lower their PB by 10 shots, they'd just save themselves £120 a year and not bother.

There's plenty of competitions around for people that want to play in scratch comps.

 

[USER1999]

And playing in no comps means no handicap, so nothing to aim for, no point in getting better, no point in playing to be honest. Every time you play with your mates, the best golfer takes the money, so you stop playing, clubs die, there are no courses left and the whole business goes up in smoke. Great idea.

 

[Pro Zach]

And playing in no comps means no handicap, so nothing to aim for, no point in getting better, no point in playing to be honest. Every time you play with your mates, the best golfer takes the money, so you stop playing, clubs die, there are no courses left and the whole business goes up in smoke. Great idea.

This is a popular argument, but has no evidence to support it. Where as I can point to the vast majority of sports, where people pay money to enter competitions and have effectively no chance of winning.


If what you say is true why do people play non handicapped sports? What is the point of getting better, what is there to aim for, what is the point of playing?


Have you considered playing with your mates for the enjoyment of the game in a social setting?


The reason you play for money is because of the handicap system. A handicap is only useful for the purpose of gambling on the outcome. A 28 handicap and scratch golfer can play golf together. They can have a chat and a laugh. And if they wish they can each keep a score and compete against the course. What they can't do very well is compete against each other.This is because one is very good and the other is rubbish, so a competition off level would be a fair but mismatched fight. If they want to place a wager on the outcome then the 28 handicapper is going to need odds. Perhaps bet a pound at a hundred to one. Or give the 28 handicapper 28 shots and bet even money. This is then an unfair fight but evens the mismatch due to the odds being offered in the form of a handicap.


The satisfaction is now all based on winning the money. Unless you play for large sums the satisfaction from winning money is less than the satisfaction you would get from competing fairly and doing well.


You say, without a handicap, there is nothing to aim for and no point in getting better.Quite clearly the logical argument would be the opposite. If you have an equal chance of winning with a 28 handicap, then there is nothing to aim for and no point of getting better. If you had no handicap then the point of getting better is to improve your chance of winning and if you want, that is what you can aim for.


Why do people want to get better at golf? This is because it is human nature to want to improve. We normally judge our improvement by comparing ourselves to others in a fair competition. This is why we like competitions. But in golf we can't compare ourselves in competition because the competition isn't fair. Everyone is playing by different rules.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is a popular argument, but has no evidence to support it. Where as I can point to the vast majority of sports, where people pay money to enter competitions and have effectively no chance of winning.


If what you say is true why do people play non handicapped sports? What is the point of getting better, what is there to aim for, what is the point of playing?


Have you considered playing with your mates for the enjoyment of the game in a social setting?


The reason you play for money is because of the handicap system. A handicap is only useful for the purpose of gambling on the outcome. A 28 handicap and scratch golfer can play golf together. They can have a chat and a laugh. And if they wish they can each keep a score and compete against the course. What they can't do very well is compete against each other.This is because one is very good and the other is rubbish, so a competition off level would be a fair but mismatched fight. If they want to place a wager on the outcome then the 28 handicapper is going to need odds. Perhaps bet a pound at a hundred to one. Or give the 28 handicapper 28 shots and bet even money. This is then an unfair fight but evens the mismatch due to the odds being offered in the form of a handicap.


The satisfaction is now all based on winning the money. Unless you play for large sums the satisfaction from winning money is less than the satisfaction you would get from competing fairly and doing well.


You say, without a handicap, there is nothing to aim for and no point in getting better.Quite clearly the logical argument would be the opposite. If you have an equal chance of winning with a 28 handicap, then there is nothing to aim for and no point of getting better. If you had no handicap then the point of getting better is to improve your chance of winning and if you want, that is what you can aim for.


Why do people want to get better at golf? This is because it is human nature to want to improve. We normally judge our improvement by comparing ourselves to others in a fair competition. This is why we like competitions. But in golf we can't compare ourselves in competition because the competition isn't fair. Everyone is playing by different rules.

Sorry let me get this straight. I play off 13 and my mate plays for the county off +1 and you want me to play him off a level playing field and enjoy being beaten every week because we can have a nice social game. Poppycock of the highest order. If I enter a monthly medal its because I want to get my handicap down first and foremost and be in with a chance of being competitive enough to win.

There are times to play social rounds and play about with handicapping but in competitive play for 99% of us it is the handicap that makes this game so great and that a relative newcomer can rock up with his 28 and give Smiffy, Murph and Bob a game and be competitive. We all know how the handicapping system works and how much we will rise and fall by based on performance. Why isn't the competition fair and why are we playing by different rules

 

[stevie_r]

I think I would be very unpopular. People would throw teddies, complain that I had ruined golf, and vow never to play in a competition again. People don't like change and golfers have a genuine, but misguided, belief that the handicap system is good for golf.


When people have put their lip away, some will enter competitions again, although they have little chance of winning. Then, when they shoot 10 shots better than they have ever done before, and finish perhaps 10[SUP]th[/SUP],they will be over the moon. They will not in anyway be embarrassed or uncomfortable. They will not question if their handicap is correct.They will not feel like a bandit or be called a bandit. They will get more satisfaction, and enjoyment, from finishing 10[SUP]th[/SUP] on merit.


To get real satisfaction from your performance, it is not necessary to win, but it is necessary to play fairly. Most golfers I know wouldn't dream of kicking their ball out of a bad lie to gain a 1 shot advantage, but have no problem gaining a 20 shot advantage with a handicap allowance. Taking an advantage doesn't become fair simply because someone wrote it into the rules.

I have never read such utter drivel in all my life

 

[JustOne]

You say, without a handicap, there is nothing to aim for and no point in getting better.Quite clearly the logical argument would be the opposite. If you have an equal chance of winning with a 28 handicap, then there is nothing to aim for and no point of getting better. If you had no handicap then the point of getting better is to improve your chance of winning and if you want, that is what you can aim for.

I agree with this logic. That's why the practice ground isn't flooded with 28 h/cappers only the CAT1 guys. However I think it would be solved somewhat with all comps being off 3/4 of handicap.... or (as is often the way) the comp is divided into divisions.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry let me get this straight. I play off 13 and my mate plays for the county off +1 and you want me to play him off a level playing field and enjoy being beaten every week because we can have a nice social game. Poppycock of the highest order. If I enter a monthly medal its because I want to get my handicap down first and foremost and be in with a chance of being competitive enough to win.

There are times to play social rounds and play about with handicapping but in competitive play for 99% of us it is the handicap that makes this game so great and that a relative newcomer can rock up with his 28 and give Smiffy, Murph and Bob a game and be competitive. We all know how the handicapping system works and how much we will rise and fall by based on performance. Why isn't the competition fair and why are we playing by different rules

Well it may be the bottle of wonderful old Chianti, but I've at last agreed with everything Homer has said! It must be a leap year!

Zach, unadjusted Strokeplay is fine for Pros or a scratch element of club comps (and I've entered those). However handicaps have existed in one form or another for something like 500 years (give or take a decade or 2) and the way handicaps and golf work is something that absolutely makes the game.

 

[rosecott]

I agree with this logic. That's why the practice ground isn't flooded with 28 h/cappers only the CAT1 guys. However I think it would be solved somewhat with all comps being off 3/4 of handicap.... or (as is often the way) the comp is divided into divisions.

Now that's nearly as much cobblers as that talked by Pro Zach. Either you believe in handicaps or don't but not believe in them but only to the extent of 3/4.

 

[doublebogey7]

This is a popular argument, but has no evidence to support it. Where as I can point to the vast majority of sports, where people pay money to enter competitions and have effectively no chance of winning.


Ok name these vast majority of sports that have thriving competition.

 

[stevie_r]

Now that's nearly as much cobblers as that talked by Pro Zach. Either you believe in handicaps or don't but not believe in them but only to the extent of 3/4.

An excellent point rosecott, if a handicap system exists (and it does, obviously) it should be used as is, not bastardized.

 

[JustOne]

Now that's nearly as much cobblers as that talked by Pro Zach. Either you believe in handicaps or don't but not believe in them but only to the extent of 3/4.

If you're playing your buddy for a bit of beer money... full h/cap... actually take more shots if he wants you too!! Take what you can get... have 100.

If you're playing in a comp then 3/4, and it's the same for the low guys too.... so a 4 plays off 3... why should that be an issue?

Actually is it that time of the month again for the h/cap thread????

 

[Foxholer]

If you're playing your buddy for a bit of beer money... full h/cap... actually take more shots if he wants you too!! Take what you can get... have 100.

If you're playing in a comp then 3/4, and it's the same for the low guys too.... so a 4 plays off 3... why should that be an issue?

Actually is it that time of the month again for the h/cap thread????

The facts (statistics) that Congu have gathered apparently indicate otherwise!

Though I agree with your Division idea - and it's implemented in many clubs.

 

[JustOne]

The facts (statistics) that Congu have gathered apparently indicate otherwise!

Yes I know. Luckily they've even'd it out for the guys that don't practice

(that includes me in the non-practice group but then I'd happily play off 3/4)

 

[rosecott]

Actually is it that time of the month

It probably is.

 

[Pro Zach]

Sorry let me get this straight. I play off 13 and my mate plays for the county off +1 and you want me to play him off a level playing field and enjoy being beaten every week because we can have a nice social game. Poppycock of the highest order. If I enter a monthly medal its because I want to get my handicap down first and foremost and be in with a chance of being competitive enough to win.

There are times to play social rounds and play about with handicapping but in competitive play for 99% of us it is the handicap that makes this game so great and that a relative newcomer can rock up with his 28 and give Smiffy, Murph and Bob a game and be competitive. We all know how the handicapping system works and how much we will rise and fall by based on performance. Why isn't the competition fair and why are we playing by different rules

For your second sentence; in a word........yes. Or more to the point, (you might want to sit down here, because this might be a shock) you aren't very good at golf and your friend is. Now wipe the tears from your eyes and be pleased for your friend. The reason you can't be competitive against your friend is because he is much better than you. If you want to take 14 shots off your score and pretend you won, that is up to you. Does this stop the disappointment of being beaten? Do you now enjoy winning? Congratulations, you can now beat a +1 player. All you have to do is ignore the 14 shots you duffed. Just pretend they didn't happen.


If you really want to get your handicap down then stop trying to win competitions by using it. I'm pretty sure (correct me if I’m wrong) that you have previously said you should 'use' your shots, or words similar to that. Trying to play to your handicap is a sound tactic to win a handicap competition. But it is a terrible tactic to improve. If you always try to play how you did yesterday then you are likely to stay at that standard. If you want to improve, remove your safety net.Write 0 where it says handicap and then you might find out how good you really can be. Necessity really is the mother of invention. If you really want to win (you can never know until you prove it on a level playing field) then you will have to improve.


A relative newcomer,off 28, can not give Smify, Murph or Bob a competitive game. He has to pretend he took less shots than he actually did. With this fantasy he can be world number one. All he has to do is pretend he can score lower than Luke Donald. I know people can't see it but there is less satisfaction in fantasy than there is in reality. It is actual achievement that gives satisfaction, not fantasy.


For your last two questions. At the end of 18 holes, the rules state, a 20 handicapper can knock 20 shots off his score, a scratch golfer can knock 0 off his. Does that seem like different rules to you? Does it sound fair?

 

[rosecott]

For your last two questions. At the end of 18 holes, the rules state, a 20 handicapper can knock 20 shots off his score, a scratch golfer can knock 0 off his. Does that seem like different rules to you? Does it sound fair?

No.

Yes.

Why do you think so many players young/old/healthy/unhealthy/male/female/rich/poor play this wonderful game - because there is a handicapping system that allows them to play with and compete against players whose standard they might never come anywhere near achieving. You are in a minority of one (OK maybe there are one or two more like you somewhere). If you are a member of a club, imagine how many of the 150 or so who enter comps every week would still bother if everyone played off scratch.

 

[JustOne]

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Harsh... but true.