What do Ladies & juniors have that Seniors don't?

[Parmo]

...Be allowed to have their own tees i.e. off the women's or Juniors?

I ask because I read the letter in Jans GM about this. In the US they use Senior tees as we all know the older we get the less distance we have but since the handicaps hardly change it seems unfair to ask a 70 year old to drive 260-300 yards off 15 say when this whippa snappa opponent off 15 can drive that?

We give juniors their own tee regardless of hcp and women so is it time for clubs & R&A to do this for Seniors?

 

[birdieman]

Not sure what you're getting at - At our club Seniors play white medal tees if playing in general men's competition events. However if they play Seniors only comps then they move to the yellow 'box' tees thereby playing less yardage.
There is a separate SSS for whites(medals) and yellow(boxes) so handicaps can be adjusted accordingly.
No problems!

The last thing we need is another set of tees - Whites, yellows, reds and blues seems ample to me.

 

[Parmo]

No I was meaning for Seniors to play off the ladies/junior tees rather than create new ones due to the lack of distance form them.

 

[TWM]

As one of the most senior seniors here please let me have my say. I have lost a significant amount of distance from the tee in the last two years but this is mainly because of illness.
I recently went on an outing to another course with some of my fellow seniors, some were twenty years younger than me. It was quite a long course with serious rough and yet some bright character said "let's play off the whites" and I had to go along with this. It was a miserable experience for me.

However I do not want to have an advantage over other players. I only wish the course owners were not so obsessed with lengthening the course but could find a way to make courses more interesting.

 

[Doh]

We give juniors their own tee regardless of hcp and women so is it time for clubs & R&A to do this for Seniors?

[/QUOTE]

Not sure this is right although for juniors do they get their handicaps from the junior tees ??.When do they go on to whites or yellows

We have one full lady member who when she plays off their tees plays of 9 when she plays off the whites in general comps an ajustment is made (according to congu rules)and
she plays off 14.

 

[Imurg]

The problem is Seniors - at our club - are from 50 onwards. There are some 50 yearolds that can out-drive me so they're not short of distance. If Senior = 50 - 90+ then you're going to have a huge discrepancy in distance to work with.

 

[Parmo]

After speaking to some of the older guys at the club (50+) they admit to loosing distance a lot over the few years, and as the letter in GM stated they do this in the states.

 

[Imurg]

I hear what you're saying but you've got the 50 year old guy who can still punt it 250 against the 70 year old guy who punts it 175.

Where do you make the cut on who plays from which tee?

Nice idea but it would cause friction in the club.

 

[RGuk]

Good thought!!

I have to agree with any idea that uses some of the forward tees to suit different catagories of player.

We have a hole at ours (par 3) with 2 lakes and t.b.h. it would be most sensible for the seniors to play off the yellows or even reds. It's a long carry and I've seen seniors laying up between the two and having to hit a 60 yarder over the second pond out of rough. It's crazy.....long carries and such like WILL slow up play and it can't be that hard to choose a few tees where the seniors can play off a forward tee. I'm not sure many would want this on ALL tees but it's not rocket science to spot the ones that are crazy and time-wasting, not to mention score destroying!!

 

[Parmo]

I wonder how the Yanks do it then?

 

[DCB]

Our male Juniors play off the Whites and the girls play off the ladies Medal tees.

Don't see the need for additional tees for Juniors and Seniors. The Handicap system takes care of itself if they all put in their cards.

 

[Imurg]

One wonders how the Yanks do anything!

I like the idea Parmo, I just can't see how you can make it fair for all - age isn't necessarily a factor. Ability is. Split them via handicap?

 

[RGuk]

Don't see the need for additional tees for Juniors and Seniors. The Handicap system takes care of itself if they all put in their cards.

Yeh....right....

I've seen seniors take 7s and 8s on holes that would prove a bogey at worst if it wasn't for the 200 yard carry over rough or 189 to the front of a two-pond par 3.

Young seniors, no troub's but older or less physically able folk....can't agree.

I remember ALL too well, the 2nd at West Middlesex in London. 205 par three over a quarry. The ladies and seniors either went over to the first fairway or into the basin of the quarry......then missed the green more often than not, chipped on a 2 putted for a 5. If there had been a forward tee, maybe, just maybe, these members could have enjoyed the odd par now and again.

Ba - Humbug!!!

Seriously, not all courses are the same, and some would really benefit from some more "fair" tees to the less able.

No point playing off 24 when 6 of those are at two unplayable holes.

 

[muttleee]

I've seen seniors take 7s and 8s on holes that would prove a bogey at worst if it wasn't for the 200 yard carry over rough or 189 to the front of a two-pond par 3.

What possessed the club to design a hole like that in the first place?!

I remember ALL too well, the 2nd at West Middlesex in London. 205 par three over a quarry. The ladies and seniors either went over to the first fairway or into the basin of the quarry......then missed the green more often than not, chipped on a 2 putted for a 5.

I see West Middlesex's website describes this hole (the second, remember) as "the end of many a medal card." It must be a bit dispiriting to know your round is over after just 2 holes!

 

[Herbie]

Ive still found myself getting stuffed by a good senior before now . If you get older and hit less distance then eventually it will be reflected in h/c or your short game and putting may improve . When I was younger I could whack the ball quite accurately some 300 plus, now though, in order to stay reasonably accurate I only hit say, 250/60 with a decent drive. I can still play my h/c on almost any course on a good day. Even the extra long courses I find these days are of no real problem, just require a different strategy.

In my view old fellas distance hitting will only be a problem when very very short (eg, 100yds) and inaccurate.
Dont underestimate any of these old or older golfers. If its an old golfer having serious probs with distance its often more to it than simple loss of distance and this would make things too complicated to give a measuring method to see who gets to go off the ladies .

 

[GB72]

I can appreciate the point being made here. We have a couple of long par 4s that are classed as par 5s for the ladies so not only do they get to play off the reds but also get an extra shot on these holes. Cannot see why that rule does not apply to the seniors as well as they often have the same issue with distance.

 

[Herbie]

How do we separate the seniors who still hit 250 plus and play off single figures from those who perhaps never got a propper feel for the game or have become physically incapable. It would require a string of senior levels of play often accompanied with a doctors cert.

 

[Parmo]

If you read the letter the guy states that he played a guy in Texas off 15 the same as him but due to his age (over 60) his distance wasn't good and the other fellow stuffed him, but the next round the gent asked why wasn't he using the senior tees? so he did and beat the guy by one stroke and his enjoyment of the game remaining competitive was the key and all where happy

 

[theeaglehunter]

I think this is a good idea but unlikely to work due to the points mentioned about some seniors being much longer than others, however you could argue that some women are longer than some men so they shouldn't always have a distance advantage.

I think you just have to let the handicap system take care of it, if someone doesn't have the distance to play off a certain set of tees from these they will have a higher handicap. For example a woman that bombs the ball 280 yards regularly (further than me) would have a lower handicap off of the reds than I do off of the whites so you should if the handicaps are truthful still be competitive against these longer, distance assisted players. I hope that makes sense...

On that basis of the handicap system working the only thing forward seniors tees would do is enable them to hold a lower handicap than they otherwise could, whilst creating the issues of some seniors being much longer than others. They wouldn't actually gain anything in terms of being competitive against other players as they would have less shots, if indeed playing off yellows / whites was difficult because of distance.

 

[Herbie]

eagle is right, the h/c system reflects an individuals general standard if maintained consistantly.Its all thats needed and logically nothing else should be.